destaco esta parte: "When I visited Fukuoka in 1984 he did a drawing for me & explained it through my wife at the time who is Japanese. I have mentioned it on here before, it was a drawing of people digging a big hole in the ground, he said when each technology creates a problem, we try to find another technology to solve the problem instead of going back to the place where there was no problem in the first place & with each technology we dig a deeper & deeper hole in which to bury ourselves. I don't know what you others think but many of the things he said seem to me to be from someone more in touch with reality, to me very little ego is seen." de:   [fukuoka_farming] WHAT IS REALITY...WHO ARE YOU? De: "greenie6666" <[email protected]>   Para: [email protected]   Fecha: Hoy 20:42:58 Maybe I'm crazy to try to say anything like this on this group, as they say you shouldn't talk about these things just let everyone find it themselves in their time, as they say ultimately we will all end up there... They say you can't help anyone out of their suffering...each of us has a unique experience of consciousness...ultimately we are one in consciousness, but we are divided in experience. But we are all evolving back into the oneness which is consciousness. Maybe why we all have so much trouble with Fukuoka's idea of natural farming, is because like I have said in the past he was already evolved to Enlightenment & was looking at it from a more intuitive state, not from his thinking mind. But then when you want to pass on this knowledge to others you can only resort to the thinking mind & language & things experienced in this state aren't communicable in language, well at least not accurately. If this in fact is the case we probably have as much hope of the realization as a blowfly trapped in a bottle...LOL...if fact I think maybe the thinking mind is a bit like that, always going around in circles. The thinking mind & ego think we are so smart & how smart we are with our science & technology, but think of it are we really, all our so called progress has got us to where we are today, I for one don't think it's a pretty place. The way nature did things looks lots more pretty & successful. When I visited Fukuoka in 1984 he did a drawing for me & explained it through my wife at the time who is Japanese. I have mentioned it on here before, it was a drawing of people digging a big hole in the ground, he said when each technology creates a problem, we try to find another technology to solve the problem instead of going back to the place where there was no problem in the first place & with each technology we dig a deeper & deeper hole in which to bury ourselves. I don't know what you others think but many of the things he said seem to me to be from someone more in touch with reality, to me very little ego is seen. As Iyo has said he was from the landed gentry, if he didn't have access to land he couldn't have done what he did. The Buddha was from the Brahman caste, even a prince I believe, but he left it all behind on his journey...just because you are better off than someone, doesn't mean you can't learn things from them, but if your ego sees them as some privileged person, that it must hate & ignore, I guess you are the looser. This is how I sum things up, many of you wont agree, but as others have said hopefully here we are allowed to put forth ideas as long as we don't abuse each other, if you can't see anything in another's ideas or beliefs, no problem as long as you allow the person to have his individual belief. I was grown up in a non religious family, but as a young boy, because I think I wanted to be a good boy, I had some belief in God, but when I left school at 15 I started reading books on nature life & human beings, which have been my life long interest. After reading certain books my belief changed, I became a full on believer in science, but I couldn't put down an interest in some things about India & other various things & some how I don't remember how, maybe because I was interested in organic growing, I read "The One Straw Revolution" even though I no longer had this belief in religion, I wanted to know the truth [the reality of life] I often wondered about religion & God because so many people in the world had these beliefs. I thought it must have some source in reality, I have also thought that anything that a human thinks about must in fact exist, as I don't think we are cable of thinking of anything that we haven't at some level thought about or experinced...even when I was a kid we always thought about Mars & who might live there, but the Martians we thought about were just mixtures of things we knew on Earth, we seemed incapable of thinking about anything totally unique [like nothing on earth]. Now I think I have come around almost full circle, as life seems to all be about circles...the sun rising each day, life, death, rebirth [born again]. Even now I at some level now,  believe what I believe, telling others about it seems still crazy...as most I guess will think it is.  Think quietly about yourself, say to yourself "I AM" you know that don't you, if you didn't know that, there would be nothing [no awareness] but hopefully you will agree that you are here & aware...really if you honestly think on this you will understand that that is really all you can know truly...everything else is seen through the filter of your mind...scientist do elaborate experiments to prove what is truth...but because it's "out there" outside of you there's no way you can really know it's there or truth. Because it comes through the filter of your mind. That "I AM" is the same in all of us, the Oneness [God if you want but I don't like the idea of that word, it has too many connotations] I prefer Oneness or consciousness. So I haven't time to go on further & I don't even know if anyone is interested in listening anyway, but if you believe this it becomes even more insane to attack each other, because it is like attacking yourself & because the belief is that anything you put "out there" will "come back to you" as you create your own reality. Also in this thinking mind & ego state I think it's a bit pointless for people to stop using their names, any word is only a symbol of something for the use of language, if you drop your name, we will just use your email, as without a symbol in this state language is impossible. It's also the same with any word, it's what you believe the word stand for...take God if you think it's some old guy in heaven checking if your good or bad...that's why I don't like it something like Oneness or consciousness is harder to relate to, or have other connation's. that all for now...regards...Norm Australia _______________________________________________ Movimiento mailing list [email protected] http://listas.softwarelibre.org.ar/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/movimiento