Dear friends,

on the P2P-blog the discussion obout our relation to the state is going on.

Ecuador as a state form, the proposal for a ‘Partner State’, and lessons
for future Commons Transition Strategies
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/ecuador-as-a-state-form-the-proposal-for-a-partner-state-and-lessons-for-future-commons-transition-strategies/2014/07/10#comment-810601

We can do this discussion in spanish or english. Also we can continue
this discussion on the maillists. But like was Orsan Senalp wrote - we
have to bring this two language spaces together.

many greetings, willi
Bogota, Colombia


--- Quiliro wrote

Great to see Michel’s and Willi’s great perspectives.

I wonder what can be done in order to prevent the powerful from abusing
the minorities or even the majorities in a stateless society as Michel
states. Many times the majorities are manipulated in order to run over
people that oppose the powerful, whether these powerful are part of the
state or not. Other times, the powerful use violence and bureaucracy to
exert their power over the majorities. What can we do in a stateless or
stateful society against these abuses?


--- my answer

dear Quiliro and all,

your question, i think, is the most important question. What we have to
do for independence in our development of our life environment?

Michel and Silke Helfrich think and say that we need the state as a
partner state, as a cooperation partner. But we can see in Germany, what
is going on. And we can see in Ecuador, what are the results of that.

I give here to links to very different writings about the same situation.

Dangerous practice of digital mass surveillance must be subject to
independent checks and balances – Pillay
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/Media.aspx?IsMediaPage=true&LangID=E

Peer to Peer (P2P) Production as the Alternative to Capitalism – A New
Communist Horizon
http://www.networkedlabour.net/2013/05/peer-to-peer-p2p-production-as-the-alternative-to-capitalism-a-new-communist-horizon/

Navi Pillay and Jakob Rigi act on the same themes on her different
backgrounds and her different perspektives. State or people self
organization. But this is a pre-step in our thinking and doing.

This means, that the first is that we disolve our own slavery system in
our thinking. If we create our own perspectives and our ways for that,
then we can cooperate with all people without to lost our orientation
for our future.

Of course, the result is that we are self-responsible for our life and
never we can go to any institution to ask for our life basics. We have
to do self. But never alone.

Here come in the Comunas. The local life community. We break the
primitive dualism Individual or state. As single persons we live in
communities. This are the constitutional elements for our bigger social
societies.

State never exist. It is a virtual construction. So, why we should
follow any stupid production of thoughts of stupid persons? I don-t
understand, why Michel and Franz Nahrada and many other follow this
religion.

many greetings, willi
Bogota, Colombia