Re: [P2P-F] labour power as a common pool resource
I'm eager to see Tom's reaction, on how his theoretical analysis and wishes, are confronted with the reality of labor commons actually emerging, but I don't share Tibi's analysis that this is un-problematic, in fact, what Tibi and Sensororica are doing, how well would be the question, is to create membranes that 'discipline' extractive capital to the needs of the commoners; if that is NOT done well, it can also be an extractive mechanism that allows corporations to profit from the largely free labour donated to these platforms that is as much a struggle as the struggle between labor and capital in commodity labor, Michel On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Tiberius Brastaviceanu < [email protected]> wrote:
Thanks Tom for sharing this article. I am going to read it with great interest. I copied Alexandre from Ouishare MTL, who has a passion for the future of labor.
Here's my first gut reaction to this.
The underlying assumption is the struggle between labor and capital. But if our economic system is reconfiguring this relationship is no longer the same. Peer production networks like www.sensorica.co can be seen as new ways of organizing labor, co-managing resources, redistribution of benefits, ... All the means of production belong to individuals, are co-owned or are under nondominium or commons property regimes, and they are shared according to some rules. I don't like to think of the network as an accumulation of labor, labor potential that serves capital, unless you are thinking about centralized crowdsourcing platforms that play the role of intermediary between the crowd and corporations. In the case of SENSORICA I see it as an aggregation of labor, skills, resources, for projects that are driven by the crowd, for the crowd.
If you bet on platform capitalism and you think that these centralized crowdsourcing platforms will rule the world, the uberization of work, then labor, as subjected to corporations for production, distribution and rewards, then you might want to think of protective measures for labor, you may want to make it possible for labor to achieve a new equilibrium of forces.
If you bet on peer production a la SENSORICA all this opposition disappears.
There is a Facebook thread where I mention our observations of capital being more and more subjected to peer production rules, from our experience with servicing corporations.
Some links
Interfaces between open p2p networks and classical institutions <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ABmC6YJsszlIPoL-YXU3GF-PLHY0tmQdocBExswh7Lw/edit> On redistribution of resources <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F19rvACy80_0k3p32dI2NReuVkmozRvDJceaQCuf8y0/edit>
On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]
wrote:
thanks Tom,
Michel
On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 11:36 PM, Tom Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
Yes, Michel. Briefly, a few years ago I wrote a piece called "Time on the Ledger" that sketches the rudiments of a social accounting framework that could be used by a labour commons unionism. It's posted on Scribd: https://www.scribd.com/doc/44657733/Time-on-the-Ledger-Social-Accounting-for...
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Michel Bauwens < [email protected]> wrote:
Could you be very specific about this Tom,
I work with post-corporate entrepreneurial coalitions and labour mutuals , and it would be of interest to me if you could explain the practicalities of how this would work ?
have you looked into contributive accounting systems like Sensorica's
how does that relate to your ideas,
for example: http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Interfacing_Open_Peer_Production_Organizations...
-- CheckFrom: Tom Walker <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: [NetworkedLabour] Fwd: [Debate-List] (Fwd) Radical leisure, less work, more commoning (Eva Swidler) To: P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]> Message-ID: < CANz+BQxMmvc9SEh1Rf52GHqiJirV_6RCOUzYA_KYJGM+RpD8rQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I hope this article sparks the conversation that needs to take place. It certainly raises the issues that need to be addressed.
In my view, the next step in thinking about labour, leisure and the commons is to conceptualize labour power as a common pool resource. Unions have traditionally bargained for collective terms for individualized work contracts, which reinforces the selling time for money paradigm. "A fair day's work for a fair day's wage." Treating labour power as a common pool resource, however, would require the development of an entirely different, social accounting framework in which collective interests of security and community -- commonalty, to use the Luddites' term -- are prioritized. I've written a few things on labour power as a common pool resource and Paul Burkett discussed the concept in Marx and Nature.
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-- Cheers,
Tom Walker (Sandwichman)
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-- t!b! <http://www.google.com/profiles/tiberius.brastaviceanu> co-founder of SENSORICA <http://www.sensorica.co>: an open value network (or open enterprise) co-founder of CAKE <http://aces-cake.org/>: consulting for the new economy founder of Multitude Project <http://multitudeproject.blogspot.ca/>: informing the new multitude
Google Profile <https://plus.google.com/117593809719446924575/about> Facebook Tiberius Brastaviceanu <http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000279944184> Twitter @TiberiusB <http://twitter.com/TiberiusB>
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
"I'm eager to see Tom's reaction, on how his theoretical analysis and wishes, are confronted with the reality of labor commons actually emerging," First, I would argue that the early labour movements had more of the character of what I call "labour commons unionism" than do the current-day state-certified organizations. One needs only to read the manifestoes of the ten-hour day movement in the U.K. or the eight-hour day movement in the U.S. to see the prominence of solidarity with the unemployed. For evidence of actually emerging labour commons today, one has to look outside of organized labour -- which, I would maintain is one of the big reasons organized labour has been in decline. Consider what happened with the wild fires in Fort McMurray. There was a great deal of spontaneous self-organization in receiving communities to feed and shelter the evacuees. Rebecca Solnit wrote about the generality of this kind of response to disaster in *A Paradise Made in Hell*, which she discussed with Jonathan Rowe in this radio interview back in 2009: http://jonathanrowe.org/interview-rebecca-solnit-a-paradise-built-hell How these two sides relate is that early labour movements were collective responses to "disasters" -- widespread unemployment, wage cuts, dangerous working conditions, etc. Whether and how large numbers of people will mobilize to respond collectively to climate change, precariousness, plutocratic austerity can only be a matter of speculation at this point. One cannot prescribe how such a mobilization will evolve. What I am trying to anticipate is what kinds of tools will educate people in ways that will enable them to respond most effectively to the challenges of transition from an unsustainable fossil-fuel based industrial society. On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:
I'm eager to see Tom's reaction, on how his theoretical analysis and wishes, are confronted with the reality of labor commons actually emerging,
but I don't share Tibi's analysis that this is un-problematic, in fact, what Tibi and Sensororica are doing, how well would be the question, is to create membranes that 'discipline' extractive capital to the needs of the commoners; if that is NOT done well, it can also be an extractive mechanism that allows corporations to profit from the largely free labour donated to these platforms
that is as much a struggle as the struggle between labor and capital in commodity labor,
Michel
On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Tiberius Brastaviceanu < [email protected]> wrote:
Thanks Tom for sharing this article. I am going to read it with great interest. I copied Alexandre from Ouishare MTL, who has a passion for the future of labor.
Here's my first gut reaction to this.
The underlying assumption is the struggle between labor and capital. But if our economic system is reconfiguring this relationship is no longer the same. Peer production networks like www.sensorica.co can be seen as new ways of organizing labor, co-managing resources, redistribution of benefits, ... All the means of production belong to individuals, are co-owned or are under nondominium or commons property regimes, and they are shared according to some rules. I don't like to think of the network as an accumulation of labor, labor potential that serves capital, unless you are thinking about centralized crowdsourcing platforms that play the role of intermediary between the crowd and corporations. In the case of SENSORICA I see it as an aggregation of labor, skills, resources, for projects that are driven by the crowd, for the crowd.
If you bet on platform capitalism and you think that these centralized crowdsourcing platforms will rule the world, the uberization of work, then labor, as subjected to corporations for production, distribution and rewards, then you might want to think of protective measures for labor, you may want to make it possible for labor to achieve a new equilibrium of forces.
If you bet on peer production a la SENSORICA all this opposition disappears.
There is a Facebook thread where I mention our observations of capital being more and more subjected to peer production rules, from our experience with servicing corporations.
Some links
Interfaces between open p2p networks and classical institutions <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ABmC6YJsszlIPoL-YXU3GF-PLHY0tmQdocBExswh7Lw/edit> On redistribution of resources <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F19rvACy80_0k3p32dI2NReuVkmozRvDJceaQCuf8y0/edit>
On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Michel Bauwens < [email protected]> wrote:
thanks Tom,
Michel
On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 11:36 PM, Tom Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
Yes, Michel. Briefly, a few years ago I wrote a piece called "Time on the Ledger" that sketches the rudiments of a social accounting framework that could be used by a labour commons unionism. It's posted on Scribd: https://www.scribd.com/doc/44657733/Time-on-the-Ledger-Social-Accounting-for...
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Michel Bauwens < [email protected]> wrote:
Could you be very specific about this Tom,
I work with post-corporate entrepreneurial coalitions and labour mutuals , and it would be of interest to me if you could explain the practicalities of how this would work ?
have you looked into contributive accounting systems like Sensorica's
how does that relate to your ideas,
for example: http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Interfacing_Open_Peer_Production_Organizations...
-- CheckFrom: Tom Walker <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: [NetworkedLabour] Fwd: [Debate-List] (Fwd) Radical leisure, less work, more commoning (Eva Swidler) To: P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]> Message-ID: < CANz+BQxMmvc9SEh1Rf52GHqiJirV_6RCOUzYA_KYJGM+RpD8rQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I hope this article sparks the conversation that needs to take place. It certainly raises the issues that need to be addressed.
In my view, the next step in thinking about labour, leisure and the commons is to conceptualize labour power as a common pool resource. Unions have traditionally bargained for collective terms for individualized work contracts, which reinforces the selling time for money paradigm. "A fair day's work for a fair day's wage." Treating labour power as a common pool resource, however, would require the development of an entirely different, social accounting framework in which collective interests of security and community -- commonalty, to use the Luddites' term -- are prioritized. I've written a few things on labour power as a common pool resource and Paul Burkett discussed the concept in Marx and Nature.
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-- Cheers,
Tom Walker (Sandwichman)
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-- t!b! <http://www.google.com/profiles/tiberius.brastaviceanu> co-founder of SENSORICA <http://www.sensorica.co>: an open value network (or open enterprise) co-founder of CAKE <http://aces-cake.org/>: consulting for the new economy founder of Multitude Project <http://multitudeproject.blogspot.ca/>: informing the new multitude
Google Profile <https://plus.google.com/117593809719446924575/about> Facebook Tiberius Brastaviceanu <http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000279944184> Twitter @TiberiusB <http://twitter.com/TiberiusB>
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-- Cheers, Tom Walker (Sandwichman)
hi Tom, below here you are focusing on disaster or resistance movements, but theya re now many active commons-oriented productive coalitions that are focused on the creation of commons and solidarity, who are not waiting for the crisis to explode to untenable levels .. so why not pay attention to them ? there are people who are rejecting subordinate labour and labor as a commodity, and create means for 'value sovereignty' and solidarity , while of course still being subjected to the larger pressures of a commodified larger society, http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Category:Post-Corporate On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 3:59 AM, Tom Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
"I'm eager to see Tom's reaction, on how his theoretical analysis and wishes, are confronted with the reality of labor commons actually emerging,"
First, I would argue that the early labour movements had more of the character of what I call "labour commons unionism" than do the current-day state-certified organizations. One needs only to read the manifestoes of the ten-hour day movement in the U.K. or the eight-hour day movement in the U.S. to see the prominence of solidarity with the unemployed.
For evidence of actually emerging labour commons today, one has to look outside of organized labour -- which, I would maintain is one of the big reasons organized labour has been in decline. Consider what happened with the wild fires in Fort McMurray. There was a great deal of spontaneous self-organization in receiving communities to feed and shelter the evacuees. Rebecca Solnit wrote about the generality of this kind of response to disaster in *A Paradise Made in Hell*, which she discussed with Jonathan Rowe in this radio interview back in 2009: http://jonathanrowe.org/interview-rebecca-solnit-a-paradise-built-hell
How these two sides relate is that early labour movements were collective responses to "disasters" -- widespread unemployment, wage cuts, dangerous working conditions, etc. Whether and how large numbers of people will mobilize to respond collectively to climate change, precariousness, plutocratic austerity can only be a matter of speculation at this point. One cannot prescribe how such a mobilization will evolve. What I am trying to anticipate is what kinds of tools will educate people in ways that will enable them to respond most effectively to the challenges of transition from an unsustainable fossil-fuel based industrial society.
On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:
I'm eager to see Tom's reaction, on how his theoretical analysis and wishes, are confronted with the reality of labor commons actually emerging,
but I don't share Tibi's analysis that this is un-problematic, in fact, what Tibi and Sensororica are doing, how well would be the question, is to create membranes that 'discipline' extractive capital to the needs of the commoners; if that is NOT done well, it can also be an extractive mechanism that allows corporations to profit from the largely free labour donated to these platforms
that is as much a struggle as the struggle between labor and capital in commodity labor,
Michel
On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Tiberius Brastaviceanu < [email protected]> wrote:
Thanks Tom for sharing this article. I am going to read it with great interest. I copied Alexandre from Ouishare MTL, who has a passion for the future of labor.
Here's my first gut reaction to this.
The underlying assumption is the struggle between labor and capital. But if our economic system is reconfiguring this relationship is no longer the same. Peer production networks like www.sensorica.co can be seen as new ways of organizing labor, co-managing resources, redistribution of benefits, ... All the means of production belong to individuals, are co-owned or are under nondominium or commons property regimes, and they are shared according to some rules. I don't like to think of the network as an accumulation of labor, labor potential that serves capital, unless you are thinking about centralized crowdsourcing platforms that play the role of intermediary between the crowd and corporations. In the case of SENSORICA I see it as an aggregation of labor, skills, resources, for projects that are driven by the crowd, for the crowd.
If you bet on platform capitalism and you think that these centralized crowdsourcing platforms will rule the world, the uberization of work, then labor, as subjected to corporations for production, distribution and rewards, then you might want to think of protective measures for labor, you may want to make it possible for labor to achieve a new equilibrium of forces.
If you bet on peer production a la SENSORICA all this opposition disappears.
There is a Facebook thread where I mention our observations of capital being more and more subjected to peer production rules, from our experience with servicing corporations.
Some links
Interfaces between open p2p networks and classical institutions <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ABmC6YJsszlIPoL-YXU3GF-PLHY0tmQdocBExswh7Lw/edit> On redistribution of resources <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F19rvACy80_0k3p32dI2NReuVkmozRvDJceaQCuf8y0/edit>
On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Michel Bauwens < [email protected]> wrote:
thanks Tom,
Michel
On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 11:36 PM, Tom Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
Yes, Michel. Briefly, a few years ago I wrote a piece called "Time on the Ledger" that sketches the rudiments of a social accounting framework that could be used by a labour commons unionism. It's posted on Scribd: https://www.scribd.com/doc/44657733/Time-on-the-Ledger-Social-Accounting-for...
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Michel Bauwens < [email protected]> wrote:
Could you be very specific about this Tom,
I work with post-corporate entrepreneurial coalitions and labour mutuals , and it would be of interest to me if you could explain the practicalities of how this would work ?
have you looked into contributive accounting systems like Sensorica's
how does that relate to your ideas,
for example: http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Interfacing_Open_Peer_Production_Organizations...
-- CheckFrom: Tom Walker <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: [NetworkedLabour] Fwd: [Debate-List] (Fwd) Radical leisure, less work, more commoning (Eva Swidler) To: P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]> Message-ID: < CANz+BQxMmvc9SEh1Rf52GHqiJirV_6RCOUzYA_KYJGM+RpD8rQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I hope this article sparks the conversation that needs to take place. It certainly raises the issues that need to be addressed.
In my view, the next step in thinking about labour, leisure and the commons is to conceptualize labour power as a common pool resource. Unions have traditionally bargained for collective terms for individualized work contracts, which reinforces the selling time for money paradigm. "A fair day's work for a fair day's wage." Treating labour power as a common pool resource, however, would require the development of an entirely different, social accounting framework in which collective interests of security and community -- commonalty, to use the Luddites' term -- are prioritized. I've written a few things on labour power as a common pool resource and Paul Burkett discussed the concept in Marx and Nature.
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-- Cheers,
Tom Walker (Sandwichman)
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-- t!b! <http://www.google.com/profiles/tiberius.brastaviceanu> co-founder of SENSORICA <http://www.sensorica.co>: an open value network (or open enterprise) co-founder of CAKE <http://aces-cake.org/>: consulting for the new economy founder of Multitude Project <http://multitudeproject.blogspot.ca/>: informing the new multitude
Google Profile <https://plus.google.com/117593809719446924575/about> Facebook Tiberius Brastaviceanu <http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000279944184> Twitter @TiberiusB <http://twitter.com/TiberiusB>
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-- Cheers,
Tom Walker (Sandwichman)
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
participants (2)
-
Michel Bauwens -
Tom Walker