Dear Brian, many thanks for your answer. Never i wanted to devalue you. It was only my reaction to this part of your text. We have to create our local technical infrastructure, that the people can design and construct localy, what they need. We do it on the base: "global thinking, local doing". The first step is our communication system, the InterNet, "the inter-connection of local networks". It is our most important instrument for the free flowing of knowledge, ideas and methods. We know, that all people on our planet have the potential to understand the laws of the nature. We have to open the environment for a free study. But never we can use the education systems or their principles in our environments. This is the general problems of all licences like PPL, GPL or any other. Knowledge is always World-Heritage and we have to accept it. It is a rational process to understand and not a reaction process to the occupy of community ressources. Knowledge is part of the basic community ressources like land, water and frequencies. Of course, we have more. But this are the basics. And with our communication system it is the same. It is always a community instrument. The lifelines of societies. The communication system is the immaterial part of our transport system. And like all living systems our society have also two transport systems: material and immaterial. This jointly developed transport systems are our basic instruments for the development of the independent local economy, based on the local technical infrastructure. And only on this basis we can speak from political independence. Without the independence in the economy, not the distribution system, all speaking of independence and autonomy is a cheap theater. Dear Brian, this are some basics from me. I've invited some friends to read. Or to comment on. I send you my proposal to the www.1net.org and NetMundial in Brasil. But, of course, it is a more technical theme. many greetings, willi Jinotepe, Nicaragua -------- Original-Nachricht -------- Betreff: Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: [Networkedlabour] <nettime> Consensus within the Bay Area elites? Datum: Sun, 25 May 2014 01:06:20 -0500 Von: Brian Holmes <[email protected]> Antwort an: [email protected] An: willi uebelherr <[email protected]>, P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]> Kopie (CC): Kevin Flanagan <[email protected]>, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> Hello Willi, Greetings, thanks for your mail. I find myself here amidst a very interesting set of people and projects of which I am quite ignorant. But I am glad to be learning something. Hopefully some day in the future I will be able to really enage in the debates that occupy you all so passionately.

You wrote: "What has typically been lacking, among the sectors oriented toward p2p and the commons, is a real understanding of how important state institutions and industrial development still is. If we want to influence the responses to the crisis, we have to be aware of these things and actively deal with them."

This is the core of your thinking. You look like the rabbit at the snake. But if you go more and more inside in the economy, then you understand, that state institutions and industry are not important. We don't need it.

Well, I can understand why you would say that, though I can only imagine what kinds of thoughts and efforts may lie behind your words. However, I think you do misjudge me, at least a little bit. I write as one who is quite deeply involved in autonomous productive activity. However, I think there is a strong tendency for those engaged in these types of activities to overestimate their own potentials, and severely underestimate that complex set of interlocking social relations which, in a kind of shorthand, is called "the state." in my view, we do so at the peril of becoming simply insignificant. We think we can do everything, that our way is the only way; yet our antagonist most often seems to be the one with the decisive influence on history. Of course there is also a very strong and widespread tendency to overestimate the powers of the capitalist state, and you rightly denounce that. Life is a kind of balancing act between contradictory truths. And at times it is vital to tip that balance in a new direction. Believe me, I am for it! But we do have to know when and where and how to push. Good luck in your efforts, Brian -------- Original-Nachricht -------- Betreff: Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: [Networkedlabour] <nettime> Consensus within the Bay Area elites? Datum: Sat, 24 May 2014 20:18:26 -0600 Von: willi uebelherr <[email protected]> An: P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]> Kopie (CC): Kevin Flanagan <[email protected]>, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>, Brian Holmes <[email protected]> Dear Brian, we don't know us. I read your texts in the maillist from P2P Foundation. Never you find a way for any transition from your point of view. You look to the top and not to the base. You wrote: "What has typically been lacking, among the sectors oriented toward p2p and the commons, is a real understanding of how important state institutions and industrial development still is. If we want to influence the responses to the crisis, we have to be aware of these things and actively deal with them." This is the core of your thinking. You look like the rabbit at the snake. But if you go more and more inside in the economy, then you understand, that state institutions and industry are not important. We don't need it. And the actors in this areas know it very clear. The result is the construction of more and more regulation and the propaganda for this instances. In the economy we don't find money. Only in the distribution system. And all, about what you wrote, have only his roots in the distribution system. You have to totally disolve all the dogmas, which you torment. Also the FLOK project in Ecuador can never be effective. This, because the state institutions are the destinations. But this are primarly parasitic institutions. They exist basicly on the extractivism, against the people in Ecuador, against the Indigenas. All this people in the state institutions and FLOK project are hoping for a good income without any working. The only way to change the world are the independent Comunas. Based on a independendent local economy and this is always based on local technical infrastructures. We have to search for ways to create this. It means, to help the local people to create her independent economy. And this include all the decision-making power. Then the states are superfluous. A very good text to the theoretical foundations of the FLOK project and P2P Foundations is the text from Jakob Rigi: The Coming Revolution of Peer Production and Revolutionary Cooperatives. A Response to Michel Bauwens, Vasilis Kostakis and Stefan Meretz. http://www.triple-c.at/index.php/tripleC/article/view/486 many greetings, willi Jinotepe, Nicaragua Am 24/05/2014 15:05, schrieb Michel Bauwens:

a mustread of Brian Holmes

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Brian Holmes <[email protected]> Date: Sat, May 24, 2014 at 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [Networkedlabour] <nettime> Consensus within the Bay Area elites? To: Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>, Jaap van Till < [email protected]>

Michel, it's great to hear from you. Your ideas are often on my mind: I consider you the most precise, most generous and least compromised exponent of the cooperative economy, which is clearly the best thing to have emerged out of the short-lived growth surge of the 1990s. It is typical of you to write immediately whenever someone expresses anything like an idea or a proposal. Your attentiveness is really much appreciated.

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