Re: [P2P-F] Towards a Peer-to-Peer Strategy for Social Change
thank you so much Paul and Sam, this article below gets a lot of attention ... my feeling is that some combination of distribution and political efficiency, must be attempted, though I'm not sure what the 'vehicle' for this might be, I'm guessing it will be (re-)invented .. Tiberius has an idea, but not really developed, which I think is important and promising, i.e. 'pre-programmed mass movements' this involves thinking ahead of contingencies such as : what do we do when the internet is shut down, what do we do when we are physically attacked .. this is why I think that next to the quick time of spontaneous mobilizations, the long time of small groups of thinkers-doers is a necessity .. this does not mean a centralized hierarchical organisation but rather a credible (as the french would say): "force de proposition" when the greek crisis was on the agenda a few months back, my idea was that we need a force of rapid intervention, that could have made the right proposals at the right time (in this case, Ellen Woods of Web of Debt had the most cogent, immediately applicable proposals) My dream/intention is to be able to describe such a few teams ... (ellen did not reply to my emails on this however <g>) Michel On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Paul B. Hartzog <[email protected]>wrote:
David, I was just reading
http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2011/02/04/gladwell-proves-too-much/
And saw this
Activism requires not just strong ties, but also strong, centralized, hierarchical organization. Not networks. You need a hierarchy “if you’re taking on a powerful and organized establishment…”
which ties in with this post Sam Rose and I just published this morning:
Towards a Peer-to-Peer Strategy for Social Change
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/towards-a-peer-to-peer-strategy-for-social-cha...
(see also Michel Bauwens')
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/social-media-and-social-revolutions-what-is-th...
Glad to see all the good conversation around this topic of late.
-p
-------------------------------------------------------- The Forward Foundation http://www.ForwardFound.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.PaulBHartzog.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.panarchy.com [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- University of Michigan [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms. --Muriel Rukeyser
Perceive differently, then you will act differently. --Paul B. Hartzog --------------------------------------------------------
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
Michel My paper that you logged here http://p2pfoundation.net/21st_Century_Governance_as_a_Complex_Adaptive_Syste... includes a section about rapid response rather than planning, but an unmentioned implication is that the responding system has to be ready to response, which does mean some level of intellect and analyis. Ready made smart mobs as it were. If I had to make a metaphor, it would be that flocks emerge instantly when a predator emerges from the forest. The birds just take off, just like that. Definitely some pre-programming involved. -p On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:
thank you so much Paul and Sam, this article below gets a lot of attention ...
my feeling is that some combination of distribution and political efficiency, must be attempted, though I'm not sure what the 'vehicle' for this might be, I'm guessing it will be (re-)invented ..
Tiberius has an idea, but not really developed, which I think is important and promising, i.e. 'pre-programmed mass movements'
this involves thinking ahead of contingencies such as : what do we do when the internet is shut down, what do we do when we are physically attacked ..
this is why I think that next to the quick time of spontaneous mobilizations, the long time of small groups of thinkers-doers is a necessity ..
this does not mean a centralized hierarchical organisation but rather a credible (as the french would say): "force de proposition"
when the greek crisis was on the agenda a few months back, my idea was that we need a force of rapid intervention, that could have made the right proposals at the right time (in this case, Ellen Woods of Web of Debt had the most cogent, immediately applicable proposals)
My dream/intention is to be able to describe such a few teams ... (ellen did not reply to my emails on this however <g>)
Michel
On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Paul B. Hartzog <[email protected]> wrote:
David, I was just reading
http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2011/02/04/gladwell-proves-too-much/
And saw this
Activism requires not just strong ties, but also strong, centralized, hierarchical organization. Not networks. You need a hierarchy “if you’re taking on a powerful and organized establishment…”
which ties in with this post Sam Rose and I just published this morning:
Towards a Peer-to-Peer Strategy for Social Change
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/towards-a-peer-to-peer-strategy-for-social-cha...
(see also Michel Bauwens')
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/social-media-and-social-revolutions-what-is-th...
Glad to see all the good conversation around this topic of late.
-p
-------------------------------------------------------- The Forward Foundation http://www.ForwardFound.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.PaulBHartzog.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.panarchy.com [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- University of Michigan [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms. --Muriel Rukeyser
Perceive differently, then you will act differently. --Paul B. Hartzog --------------------------------------------------------
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-- -------------------------------------------------------- The Forward Foundation http://www.ForwardFound.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.PaulBHartzog.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.panarchy.com [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- University of Michigan [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms. --Muriel Rukeyser Perceive differently, then you will act differently. --Paul B. Hartzog --------------------------------------------------------
Paul, and George, and friends, just to mention a comparative tactic, in naomi klein's shock doctrine, she shows how the neoliberal machine works that way, i.e. they prepare, through their think thanks, a consistent set of proposals; none of these proposals is politically viable at the time they propose them, but in times of crises, when noboby has a clear direction, they step in, and they rapidly achieve outside influence for their anti-social proposals when the ruling class is at a loss; I propose a similar strategy with social proposals for the majority of the population, inspired by the p2p/commons paradigm, I'm not saying we can pull this off at the moment, but, we have to start working on it, Michel On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 2:26 AM, Paul B. Hartzog <[email protected]>wrote:
Michel
My paper that you logged here
http://p2pfoundation.net/21st_Century_Governance_as_a_Complex_Adaptive_Syste...
includes a section about rapid response rather than planning, but an unmentioned implication is that the responding system has to be ready to response, which does mean some level of intellect and analyis.
Ready made smart mobs as it were.
If I had to make a metaphor, it would be that flocks emerge instantly when a predator emerges from the forest. The birds just take off, just like that. Definitely some pre-programming involved.
-p
On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:
thank you so much Paul and Sam, this article below gets a lot of attention ...
my feeling is that some combination of distribution and political efficiency, must be attempted, though I'm not sure what the 'vehicle' for this might be, I'm guessing it will be (re-)invented ..
Tiberius has an idea, but not really developed, which I think is important and promising, i.e. 'pre-programmed mass movements'
this involves thinking ahead of contingencies such as : what do we do when the internet is shut down, what do we do when we are physically attacked ..
this is why I think that next to the quick time of spontaneous mobilizations, the long time of small groups of thinkers-doers is a necessity ..
this does not mean a centralized hierarchical organisation but rather a credible (as the french would say): "force de proposition"
when the greek crisis was on the agenda a few months back, my idea was that we need a force of rapid intervention, that could have made the right proposals at the right time (in this case, Ellen Woods of Web of Debt had the most cogent, immediately applicable proposals)
My dream/intention is to be able to describe such a few teams ... (ellen did not reply to my emails on this however <g>)
Michel
On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Paul B. Hartzog <[email protected]
wrote:
David, I was just reading
http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2011/02/04/gladwell-proves-too-much/
And saw this
Activism requires not just strong ties, but also strong, centralized, hierarchical organization. Not networks. You need a hierarchy “if you’re taking on a powerful and organized establishment…”
which ties in with this post Sam Rose and I just published this morning:
Towards a Peer-to-Peer Strategy for Social Change
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/towards-a-peer-to-peer-strategy-for-social-cha...
(see also Michel Bauwens')
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/social-media-and-social-revolutions-what-is-th...
Glad to see all the good conversation around this topic of late.
-p
-------------------------------------------------------- The Forward Foundation http://www.ForwardFound.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.PaulBHartzog.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.panarchy.com [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- University of Michigan [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms. --Muriel Rukeyser
Perceive differently, then you will act differently. --Paul B. Hartzog --------------------------------------------------------
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-- -------------------------------------------------------- The Forward Foundation http://www.ForwardFound.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.PaulBHartzog.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.panarchy.com [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- University of Michigan [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms. --Muriel Rukeyser
Perceive differently, then you will act differently. --Paul B. Hartzog --------------------------------------------------------
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens Commons Strategies Group, http://www.commonsstrategies.org/
participants (2)
-
Michel Bauwens -
Paul B. Hartzog