You are very right below Bob, some-times unnecessary worries, especially after people work hard on things and do sacrifice a lot from their lives and loved ones, and under a systemic down ward spiral drops of destructive self-criticisms, turning into destructive criticism at those most close to us, in communities, and these feed back loops mesh with those who bears really bad motivations and the things we experience as collective defeat of the angry, innocent, politically activated (or those practically decided to take initiative of his-her own life) masses of the ruled. As a self criticism, I mentioned before but again, to make it clear, my criticism to Negri's interview to Roar, did include I think not necessary worries, mostly fed with my temporarily increased worries (who knows may be under the influence of another emotional manipulation experiments like that of facebook involves). And probably that injected a negative impulse to the exchange and the negative feedback loop is still traceable. While the positive developments around us are intensified as the convergences. Including syriza, podemos, faircoop, (from my side gnunion ideas interlocked finally), value networks coops, commoners, interactions are intensifying and we are moving towards actions like ECB, spaces like WSF in Tunis, COOP15 in France, G20 in Istanbul, and finally we have emerging alternative narrative being built simultaneously from bottom, middle, and top.. commons, p2p, .. so on on top of a concrete ideas and practices can be the core of working associated mode of production, and corresponding superstructures.. dots are connected and we have something finally visible to appeal larger amount of people, easy to access, and would allow them to make living.. Anyway, like the Kondortief one, and other sort of cycles, these ups and downs are complex but possible to tackle with like you practice. I think Michel is too, and Anna as well are very good in tempering the tension in a way allowing smother flow of conversations, like providing kind of fing sui climate for exchange on the lists .. - any way just thought it can be good to say this out and apologies again for the initial negative input in the tone. Let's take this in to account and don't let it block productive, inspiring, and positive developments taking place and disturbing the growing darkness for larger segments of the species. best, orsan

On 3 feb. 2015, at 17:01, Bob Haugen <[email protected]> wrote:

I am in total agreement for the requirement for internal ideological transformation of the participants in movements that want to transform society. I wouldn't say "change yourself first", but "change yourself in the process".

In the old days, this was called consciousness-raising, or criticism and self-criticism. Done in core groups. Carefully. (Lots of people hated it because a lot of the internal criticism came from selfish motives, so unprincipled criticism also needs to be criticized. This stuff is hard.)

Lots of people come into oppositional movements with desires for personal aggrandizement that were unsatisfied in the dominant system. Or, as we used to say, the assholes always win if we don't do something about them.

Consciousness raising in the civil rights and women's movements was very effective. We have all been changed by it.

...

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 6:25 AM, June Gorman <[email protected]> wrote: So well said, Anna and the critical, consistently missed point. This is either what is consciously and thus far more easily done, or unconsciously resisted and replayed with the same destructive underlying constructs that defeated it the first time and every other time we were told to "wait" until things were stable, to do this kind of inclusive consciousness, deep-real-change work "then".

So in February 2015, we all celebrate a supposedly true and viable long-hoped-for, essential political-economic change from a leftist/Commons perspective (and that's what I truly am hoping it is, too), but there is not one single woman, not one, in Syriza's new cabinet. 100% male leadership!

"but changing the general culture of society and social movements is a long and arduous road, taking generations ..."

That's not just glacial movement, Michel it's backwards. And even more, a bright red flag about underlying potentially damning constructs that not only alienate so many of us, but worry us because we already know these often are the poisonous seeds of the later failures to achieve any of these ambitious dreams, as they have been so many times before.

E.F. Schumacher was absolutely right -- it takes "whole" systems change not partial "bits and pieces change" that ultimately, change little. And understanding what that means, preparing others to understand how important these issues are to that "whole", actually makes those changes easier, not harder. Because including all in the "Commons" when trying to transition to any such reality, only makes "commons sense".

Not one woman. That's a hard one to explain... ________________________________ From: P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]> To: P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]>; "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2015 7:56 AM Subject: [P2P-F] Fwd: [Networkedlabour] Another Politics - After Syriza

Thanks for this response. What I sense is that it's OK to pursue this topic as long as it is kept separate from the efforts focussed on political and theoretical change. Yet my point is that this is absolutely intrinsic to what p2p is about, the inner and outer aspects of the same thing. Nothing needs to be added, just allowing what is already there to be revealed, and not putting energy into resisting it.

Focussing on external achievements, as in the example of Podemos you gave, can lead to frustration and despair. Unless these feelings are addressed they can sabotage movement solidarity. Likewise the joy and excitement of sharing and collaboration are an integral part of our evolving humanity.

“Without developing the inner culture of the human being, we cannot develop a sustainable future.” E F Schumacher

The inspiring review of Chris Dixon's book by Garces points to the same need to include a more wholistic consciousness in our relationships. Otto Scharma makes the same point. 'We might say it this way: The success of our actions as change-makers does not depend on what we do or how we do it, but on the inner place from which we operate.'

Anna

On 2 Feb 2015, at 17:46, P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]> wrote:

from my own engagement with integral theory and clare graves work on the evolution of consciousness, I think it is totally illusory to expect a general shift of consciousness to collective wisdom ..

people who feel ready to do so, should do it with those willing to follow them; but changing the general culture of society and social movements is a long and arduous road, taking generations ...

you have to start above all with what is, warts and all ... see how the democratic structure of podemos has already changed, even before and power shift, towards a shift conducive to the leadership ... you can wish otherwise, but the shift was endorsed by 80 perent or more of the membership ... this is what you have to work with, making progress wherever you can ... and compared to the barbarians in power now, it is already a substantial shift,

Michel

<<Subject: To: Orsan <[email protected]> Cc: P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]>, Bob Haugen <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Otto Scharma's book 'Leading from the Emerging Future' is available for free download. Here is the Intro which is well worth reading. In my opinion, while this approach is not complete in itself, it would make an enriching addition towards the collaborative commons.

http://www.ottoscharmer.com/sites/default/files/e2e_ulab.pdf -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

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