how to call the study of the economics of abundance?
see below, suggestions very welcome, Michel On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson < [email protected]> wrote:
:)
I notice on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxeology
*"Von Mises writes that economics <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics>, the study of human choice under conditions of scarcity, can be treated as a specialization of praxeology, the study of all human action."*
... it makes me wonder, *what would be called "the study of human choice under conditions of abundance"* ?
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Patrick Anderson <[email protected]>wrote:
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> wrote:
I wonder how one would call direct action , transactions , and contracts made by the people without a need for a representative, but with the possibility for proxy voting which can be changed at any time in case one would want others to take decisions for us instead of taking them oneself
I think http://Wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarchism might be one part of this answer, but would avoid claiming it is all we need because it does not mention the critical issue of "beneficial connectivity" that our societies now lack.
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I tried initially to popularize the late Robert Levin's term Agalmics: http://www.openverse.com/~dtinker/agalmics.html Have to think more about this...the idea of Extropy seems relevant also. We also have to think in terms of decision theory....choice under abundance may not make sense because you can consume or enjoy all the options. Also, even when things are abundant if you have limited or scare attention you'd still be operating under conventional decision theory or utility optimizing parameters. Thus we need to distringuis Marco Economics/Macro Abundance in the Political Economy sense from micro-individual-decision/behavior. I think Economics of Abundance, or Abundance Studies. Post Scarcity Economics, Resource Based Economic. Ecological Economics (also see the Mars trilogy Red Mars, Blue Mars, Green Mars) On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 4:25 AM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>wrote:
see below, suggestions very welcome,
Michel
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson < [email protected]> wrote:
:)
I notice on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxeology
*"Von Mises writes that economics<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics>, the study of human choice under conditions of scarcity, can be treated as a specialization of praxeology, the study of all human action."*
... it makes me wonder, *what would be called "the study of human choice under conditions of abundance"* ?
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Patrick Anderson <[email protected]>wrote:
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> wrote:
I wonder how one would call direct action , transactions , and contracts made by the people without a need for a representative, but with the possibility for proxy voting which can be changed at any time in case one would want others to take decisions for us instead of taking them oneself
I think http://Wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarchism might be one part of this answer, but would avoid claiming it is all we need because it does not mention the critical issue of "beneficial connectivity" that our societies now lack.
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
While it is an interesting linguistic problem, I hope it doesn't lead to the opposite tendency to see everything exclusively from the lens of abundance. I think economics should be properly defined a study of *both* scarcity and abundance. It is the dynamics between these two opposites that determines the features of a particular economy. Greetings to all, Roberto Joseph Jackson wrote:
I tried initially to popularize the late Robert Levin's term Agalmics: http://www.openverse.com/~dtinker/agalmics.html <http://www.openverse.com/%7Edtinker/agalmics.html>
Have to think more about this...the idea of Extropy seems relevant also. We also have to think in terms of decision theory....choice under abundance may not make sense because you can consume or enjoy all the options. Also, even when things are abundant if you have limited or scare attention you'd still be operating under conventional decision theory or utility optimizing parameters. Thus we need to distringuis Marco Economics/Macro Abundance in the Political Economy sense from micro-individual-decision/behavior.
I think Economics of Abundance, or Abundance Studies. Post Scarcity Economics, Resource Based Economic. Ecological Economics (also see the Mars trilogy Red Mars, Blue Mars, Green Mars)
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 4:25 AM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
see below, suggestions very welcome,
Michel
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
:)
I notice on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxeology
/"Von Mises writes that *economics* <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics>*, the study of human choice under conditions of scarcity*, can be treated as a specialization of *praxeology, the study of all human action.*"/
... it makes me wonder, *what would be called "the study of human choice under conditions of abundance"* ?
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Patrick Anderson <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > I wonder how one would call direct action , transactions , and contracts > made by the people without a need for a representative, but with the > possibility for proxy voting which can be changed at any time in case one > would want others to take decisions for us instead of taking them oneself
I think http://Wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarchism might be one part of this answer, but would avoid claiming it is all we need because it does not mention the critical issue of "beneficial connectivity" that our societies now lack.
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
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that is actually a very good and important point, i.e. we need an integral approach that embraces both polarities instead of a ghetto for both ... Michel On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Roberto Verzola <[email protected]> wrote:
While it is an interesting linguistic problem, I hope it doesn't lead to the opposite tendency to see everything exclusively from the lens of abundance. I think economics should be properly defined a study of *both* scarcity and abundance. It is the dynamics between these two opposites that determines the features of a particular economy.
Greetings to all,
Roberto
Joseph Jackson wrote:
I tried initially to popularize the late Robert Levin's term Agalmics: http://www.openverse.com/~dtinker/agalmics.html <http://www.openverse.com/%7Edtinker/agalmics.html>
Have to think more about this...the idea of Extropy seems relevant also. We also have to think in terms of decision theory....choice under abundance may not make sense because you can consume or enjoy all the options. Also, even when things are abundant if you have limited or scare attention you'd still be operating under conventional decision theory or utility optimizing parameters. Thus we need to distringuis Marco Economics/Macro Abundance in the Political Economy sense from micro-individual-decision/behavior.
I think Economics of Abundance, or Abundance Studies. Post Scarcity Economics, Resource Based Economic. Ecological Economics (also see the Mars trilogy Red Mars, Blue Mars, Green Mars)
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 4:25 AM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
see below, suggestions very welcome,
Michel
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
:)
I notice on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxeology
/"Von Mises writes that *economics* <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics>*, the study of human choice under conditions of scarcity*, can be treated as a specialization of *praxeology, the study of all human action.*"/
... it makes me wonder, *what would be called "the study of human choice under conditions of abundance"* ?
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Patrick Anderson <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > I wonder how one would call direct action , transactions , and contracts > made by the people without a need for a representative, but with the > possibility for proxy voting which can be changed at any time in case one > would want others to take decisions for us instead of taking them oneself
I think http://Wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarchism might be one part of this answer, but would avoid claiming it is all we need because it does not mention the critical issue of "beneficial connectivity" that our societies now lack.
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
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I definitely do not think extropy is a good idea, since that brings us straight in the territory of extreme right wing libertarians and the Extropians, i.e. the people who want to privatize and enclose every single inch of the commons On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 3:23 AM, Joseph Jackson <[email protected]>wrote:
I tried initially to popularize the late Robert Levin's term Agalmics: http://www.openverse.com/~dtinker/agalmics.html
Have to think more about this...the idea of Extropy seems relevant also. We also have to think in terms of decision theory....choice under abundance may not make sense because you can consume or enjoy all the options. Also, even when things are abundant if you have limited or scare attention you'd still be operating under conventional decision theory or utility optimizing parameters. Thus we need to distringuis Marco Economics/Macro Abundance in the Political Economy sense from micro-individual-decision/behavior.
I think Economics of Abundance, or Abundance Studies. Post Scarcity Economics, Resource Based Economic. Ecological Economics (also see the Mars trilogy Red Mars, Blue Mars, Green Mars)
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 4:25 AM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>wrote:
see below, suggestions very welcome,
Michel
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson < [email protected]> wrote:
:)
I notice on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxeology
*"Von Mises writes that economics<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics>, the study of human choice under conditions of scarcity, can be treated as a specialization of praxeology, the study of all human action."*
... it makes me wonder, *what would be called "the study of human choice under conditions of abundance"* ?
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Patrick Anderson <[email protected]>wrote:
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> wrote:
I wonder how one would call direct action , transactions , and contracts made by the people without a need for a representative, but with the possibility for proxy voting which can be changed at any time in case one would want others to take decisions for us instead of taking them oneself
I think http://Wikipedia.org/wiki/Autarchism might be one part of this answer, but would avoid claiming it is all we need because it does not mention the critical issue of "beneficial connectivity" that our societies now lack.
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
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On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> wrote:
:) I notice on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxeology "Von Mises writes that economics, the study of human choice under conditions of scarcity, can be treated as a specialization of praxeology, the study of all human action." ... it makes me wonder, what would be called "the study of human choice under conditions of abundance" ?
Well, I don't think Mises would consider it economics at all, since both he and Menger (the founder of the Austrian school) defined abundant goods ("too cheap to meter") as "noneconomic goods." I suppose there could be a meta branch of economics concerning the shifting balance between economic and non-economic goods, or the increasing share of consumption that comes from the non-economic realm. -- Kevin Carson Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org Mutualist Blog: Free Market Anti-Capitalism http://mutualist.blogspot.com The Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
As I see it there are two options here, - 'reform' or 'transform' economics, even though it is rotten to the core and the core ideology of oppression and destruction of the biosphere - do away with it altogether and start anew It seems to me that most 'alternative' heterodox thinkers still work on 'rescuing' economics from its neoclassical ideologues ... and this may indeed be a necessary transition towars the kind of integrated provisioning science and decision-making that we need (as defined by Marvin Brown) and that seems to incude Roberto as well, and the first step seems indeed to redefinie the discipline away from its focus on maintaining and creating scarcity at all costs .. question: what do we know of attempts that aim to do completely away with 'economics' ? Michel On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Kevin Carson < [email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> wrote:
:) I notice on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxeology "Von Mises writes that economics, the study of human choice under conditions of scarcity, can be treated as a specialization of
praxeology,
the study of all human action." ... it makes me wonder, what would be called "the study of human choice under conditions of abundance" ?
Well, I don't think Mises would consider it economics at all, since both he and Menger (the founder of the Austrian school) defined abundant goods ("too cheap to meter") as "noneconomic goods."
I suppose there could be a meta branch of economics concerning the shifting balance between economic and non-economic goods, or the increasing share of consumption that comes from the non-economic realm.
-- Kevin Carson Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org Mutualist Blog: Free Market Anti-Capitalism http://mutualist.blogspot.com The Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
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participants (4)
-
Joseph Jackson -
Kevin Carson -
Michel Bauwens -
Roberto Verzola