Hi Anna, Just to clarify when I refer to monastic settlements I mean to in the more general sense including settlements established by women. Personally I have no doubt that women and convents also played a significant role and I would love more details on this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cistercian_nuns It is certain that many orders sought to establish themselves in secluded places away from towns and cities in an effort to distance themselves from 'the world'. However it seems that the organisational structures lent themselves to economic efficiencies and made these monasteries highly productive. In turn these became attractive and safe places for regular folk to locate communities. There are different kinds of intellectual knowledge. After the fall of the Roman Empire monasteries preserved and reproduced ancient greek and roman philosophical texts. The practical value of these texts to lay communities is debatable however the author of the paper also gives examples of invention and innovation. He refers to the medieval Cistercians use of water mills for processing grain. His source is a book called the Medieval Machine by Jean Gimpel. A brief look through the book gives other examples relating to agriculture and metal work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Gimpel http://www.scribd.com/doc/84853370/Jean-Gimpel-The-Medieval-Machine-the-Indu... I also want to make it clear that while I was raised Catholic, I no longer identify myself as such. Being Irish I am all too familiar with the hypocrisy and the abuses of the Church and I have no special love for it. Regards Kevin On 1 February 2013 11:59, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks Kevin for these illuminating comments.

- celibacy must also be seen in the context of their times, i.e. where unbridled sexuality with limited birth control technologies caused many additional social problems (child killing, child abandonment, child abuse, see the Institute for Psychohistory for their history of child abuse); the majority of monks were surplus males from both feudal and popular environments who could not benefit from inheritance mechanims, as well as a huge number of abandoned children which were routinely deposited at monastic doors (the famous 'tourniquet' were especially designed for that); with their mutualizing of knowledge and resources, they were essentially the intellectual class in their societies, next to the working farmers and warrior nobility, and especially in christian lands, they were the depositors and progenitors of technical knowledge and advancement

in premodern worldviews, spiritual work was not parasitic on the contrary, it was seen as the pinnacle of civilization, and the population felt they had a huge debt to the monks and the Church for these intercessionary services; these apart from the fact that churches and monasteries were the very centers of social life, for festivals, medical care, food reserves, and the like; in times of routine feudal abuse, monastic lands were also the refuge for widows and orphans

by the way, before the 11th cy, priests were married, and churches were often private property, while monasteries were generally run by the family members of the nobility on which lands they were settled (it was called the 'adelskirche' by historians)

You could argue that intentional communities are the pluri-gender descendants of the monastic communities and they are doing quite well in our times; given the huge number of empty church buildings, there is a huge opportunity to create a new wave of spiritual co-working centers, such as the Borderlands Augustine ctr in Melbourne, The Monastery in Manchester, or the church building taken over by the p2p-oriented communautique in Montreal,

Michel

XXX

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 20:54:12 +0700 From: Kevin F <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [P2P-F] The Economics of Monasticism by Nathan Smith To: P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]> Message-ID: <CACpSwUeeaExQQ26TCkBFSyzsJsJbq+7ZX+s_CNLsS1fAppK6XQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Hi Anna,

Monastics also provided services to the communities of which they are a part. In the past the monasteries were great repositories of knowledge. They were not limited to scriptural works alone. In the pre print era scribes also produced copies of philosophical, technical and historical works. They provided opportunities for people to educate themselves and in turn those same people became stewards of that knowledge which was of general benefit to communities that grew up around the monasteries. Now as you say it is true that as celibate institutions they fail to reproduce themselves. However it can also be said that the knowledge of which the monasteries were caretakers contributed to the sustainability and in turn the re-productivity of the lay communities and that seeing monasteries as socially valuable in this way was one reason people from those communities chose to join. Of course this is not the only motivation to join. For some it was to pursue the spiritual life, for others it was to escape poverty, while others joined because of social or family pressure. One of the big rules was that monks and nuns should not own property. If monks or nuns were to have families things become more complicated as humans tend to look out for the welfare of their own before that of the community as a whole. One of the arguments for celibacy in the church is that it acts as an anti corruption measure. When Priests, Abbots and Nuns have families it is easy for mini dynasties to emerge as quite quickly it is the son of the Abbot who inherits his fathers prestigious and influential role. This situation is avoided when they are required to be celibate. The other advantage of a celibate community is that its members have more time to focus on intellectual work. When this is applied to technical problems, inventive and innovative solutions can be shared, improving the health and sustainability of the broader lay community. All of these dynamics change as societies become better off. Today we no longer depend on monasteries to preserve and reproduce important texts. Nor do we depend on them for education or health. None of this was true 500 years ago. As the quality of life improves for people across the globe the appeal of monastic life is waning. Everywhere fewer and fewer young people are taking vocations. The tables have turned in a way. While at one time communities depended on monasteries today most monasteries depend heavily on charity. What they have to offer society more generally has come into question and their futures are indeed uncertain. I do not wish to romanticise the historical role of monasteries, I just want to point out that their social function has changed over time. While I agree that today these institutions have become in some sense parasitic my point is that it was not always so. What I gained from reading this paper was more from the analysis of incentives and motivations both of which can be applied to analysis of intentional communities. Also worth considering is the power of shared values that may be not be so strong in more secular arrangements.

Regards

Kevin -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

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