Re: [P2P-F] historicity of market economies
Dear Kevin, very good text, I'm asking Franco to serialize this in 3 episodes, prepared on the wiki holding page at http://p2pfoundation.net/Feudal_Origins_of_Capitalism where can I find the best info to create a page on the whole book? Michel (dear Franco, see 1,2,3 as proposed series, to be published sept 20 and after, on alternative days (20, 22, 24) ? On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 2:00 AM, Kevin Carson < [email protected]> wrote:
do you have specific historical references to the topic of feudal-capitalist continuation? especially if available online?
I can track down the Wallerstein and Hill references for you. BTW, critiques of Soviet "state capitalism" by people like Rosa Luxemburg and the Frankfurt School argued that the Soviet ruling class had made a similar transition, in a manner analogous to a subset of the feudal classes becoming the agrarian capitalists: in this case, the transition was to a post-capitalist collectivist system which was not genuine socialism but an authoritarian managerialist oligarchy.
Sorry this has taken me so long, Michel. All the relevant quotes are in the Conclusion to Ch. 4 of Mutualist Political Economy: http://www.mutualist.org/id65.html
Notes here: http://www.mutualist.org/id109.html
Kevin
-- Kevin Carson Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org Mutualist Blog: Free Market Anti-Capitalism http://mutualist.blogspot.com The Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
hi kevin, found your book, at http://www.mutualist.org/id47.html suggested content for http://p2pfoundation.net/Studies_in_Mutualist_Political_Economy much appreciated, Michel On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 8:05 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>wrote:
Dear Kevin,
very good text, I'm asking Franco to serialize this in 3 episodes, prepared on the wiki holding page at
http://p2pfoundation.net/Feudal_Origins_of_Capitalism
where can I find the best info to create a page on the whole book?
Michel
(dear Franco, see 1,2,3 as proposed series, to be published sept 20 and after, on alternative days (20, 22, 24) ?
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 2:00 AM, Kevin Carson < [email protected]> wrote:
do you have specific historical references to the topic of feudal-capitalist continuation? especially if available online?
I can track down the Wallerstein and Hill references for you. BTW, critiques of Soviet "state capitalism" by people like Rosa Luxemburg and the Frankfurt School argued that the Soviet ruling class had made a similar transition, in a manner analogous to a subset of the feudal classes becoming the agrarian capitalists: in this case, the transition was to a post-capitalist collectivist system which was not genuine socialism but an authoritarian managerialist oligarchy.
Sorry this has taken me so long, Michel. All the relevant quotes are in the Conclusion to Ch. 4 of Mutualist Political Economy: http://www.mutualist.org/id65.html
Notes here: http://www.mutualist.org/id109.html
Kevin
-- Kevin Carson Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org Mutualist Blog: Free Market Anti-Capitalism http://mutualist.blogspot.com The Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:
hi kevin, found your book, at http://www.mutualist.org/id47.html
suggested content for http://p2pfoundation.net/Studies_in_Mutualist_Political_Economy much appreciated,
Thanks to you and Franco for your interest in creating a page for it. -- Kevin Carson Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org Mutualist Blog: Free Market Anti-Capitalism http://mutualist.blogspot.com The Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
hi Kevin, I was wondering, do your other chapters have similar interesting and summarizing conclusions? we could go through it to see what else is republishable? Michel On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 12:07 AM, Kevin Carson < [email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:
hi kevin, found your book, at http://www.mutualist.org/id47.html
suggested content for http://p2pfoundation.net/Studies_in_Mutualist_Political_Economy much appreciated,
Thanks to you and Franco for your interest in creating a page for it.
-- Kevin Carson Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org Mutualist Blog: Free Market Anti-Capitalism http://mutualist.blogspot.com The Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
I was wondering,
do your other chapters have similar interesting and summarizing conclusions? we could go through it to see what else is republishable?
For the most part I'm afraid they don't, although there may be individual subsections you'd be interested in. -- Kevin Carson Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org Mutualist Blog: Free Market Anti-Capitalism http://mutualist.blogspot.com The Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
so, if there are any subsections you feel very strongly about, and feel the message should be emphasized, let me know, and I'll factor them in ... perhaps you could send me 3 to 5 suggestions ... we can do a 'retrospective book of the week' for it ... I wonder, have you studied a bit distributism, social credit and binary economics .. would be really interested in knowing how you position mutualism vis a vis these movements .. (also for publication) Michel On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 12:14 AM, Kevin Carson < [email protected]> wrote:
I was wondering,
do your other chapters have similar interesting and summarizing conclusions? we could go through it to see what else is republishable?
For the most part I'm afraid they don't, although there may be individual subsections you'd be interested in.
-- Kevin Carson Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org Mutualist Blog: Free Market Anti-Capitalism http://mutualist.blogspot.com The Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:
so, if there are any subsections you feel very strongly about, and feel the message should be emphasized, let me know, and I'll factor them in ...
perhaps you could send me 3 to 5 suggestions ... we can do a 'retrospective book of the week' for it ...
Thanks, Michel. I've attached an odt file with four excerpts
I wonder, have you studied a bit distributism, social credit and binary economics .. would be really interested in knowing how you position mutualism vis a vis these movements .. (also for publication)
Not enough time to compose a thoughtful analysis right now, I'm afraid. Suffice it to say I view them and mutualism as together comprising a community of "petty bourgeois deviationists." They all see the system of corporate capitalism as bad, with its concentrated wealth and centralized enterprise; they all see it as somehow the result of privilege and corporate-government collusion; and they all desire in some way to counteract privilege and restore a society of economic democracy and widely distributed ownership. They disagree mainly on the solution. -- Kevin Carson Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org Mutualist Blog: Free Market Anti-Capitalism http://mutualist.blogspot.com The Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
Dear Kevin, Can you verify the wiki holding page at http://p2pfoundation.net/Studies_in_Mutualist_Political_Economy what I still would need is a complete content summary narrative (see the example from part 2), Then, I would ask Franco to process it for the blog day 1: summary, preface and profit excerpt day 2: middle ages excerpt day 3: the neoliberal phase see for the 3 blocks: (but, the full content summary is still missing .. do you have one? - 1 Content Summary<http://p2pfoundation.net/Studies_in_Mutualist_Political_Economy#Content_Summary> - 2 Excerpts<http://p2pfoundation.net/Studies_in_Mutualist_Political_Economy#Excerpts> - 2.1 Preface: Introduction to the Mutualist Tradition<http://p2pfoundation.net/Studies_in_Mutualist_Political_Economy#Preface:_Introduction_to_the_Mutualist_Tradition> - 2.2 Where does profit come from? The role of political coercion by the state<http://p2pfoundation.net/Studies_in_Mutualist_Political_Economy#Where_does_profit_come_from.3F_The_role_of_political_coercion_by_the_state> - 2.3 The Legacy of the High Middle Ages<http://p2pfoundation.net/Studies_in_Mutualist_Political_Economy#The_Legacy_of_the_High_Middle_Ages> - 2.4 Neoliberalism and its emerging resistance<http://p2pfoundation.net/Studies_in_Mutualist_Political_Economy#Neoliberalism_and_its_emerging_resistance> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Kevin Carson < [email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:
so, if there are any subsections you feel very strongly about, and feel the message should be emphasized, let me know, and I'll factor them in ...
perhaps you could send me 3 to 5 suggestions ... we can do a 'retrospective book of the week' for it ...
Thanks, Michel. I've attached an odt file with four excerpts
I wonder, have you studied a bit distributism, social credit and binary economics .. would be really interested in knowing how you position mutualism vis a vis these movements .. (also for publication)
Not enough time to compose a thoughtful analysis right now, I'm afraid. Suffice it to say I view them and mutualism as together comprising a community of "petty bourgeois deviationists." They all see the system of corporate capitalism as bad, with its concentrated wealth and centralized enterprise; they all see it as somehow the result of privilege and corporate-government collusion; and they all desire in some way to counteract privilege and restore a society of economic democracy and widely distributed ownership. They disagree mainly on the solution.
-- Kevin Carson Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org Mutualist Blog: Free Market Anti-Capitalism http://mutualist.blogspot.com The Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
participants (2)
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Kevin Carson -
Michel Bauwens