http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=rAPM7syIcts#t=1040... Financial War Game : "Using Stocks, Bonds, Currencies and Derivatives to fight a war... " "Fiat - Organized theft, giving it to the elites" "Europe can not pay its debt, but you can print some SDR's... " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_G._Rickards http://www.amazon.com/Currency-Wars-Making-Global-Portfolio/dp/1591844495/re... SDR : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Drawing_Rights /// http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_war *Currency war*, also known as *competitive devaluation*, is a condition in international affairs <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_relations> where countries compete against each other to achieve a relatively low exchange rate <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_rate> for their own currency<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency>. As the price to buy a particular currency falls, so to does the real price of exports from the country. Imports become more expensive too, so domestic industry, and thus employment, receives a boost in demand both at home and abroad. However, the price increase in imports can harm citizens' purchasing power <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power>. The policy can also trigger retaliatory action by other countries which in turn can lead to a general decline in international trade, harming all countries.
Rikards is excellent. He’s also very Christian and a Goldbug. Kudos 4 being broad-minded. From: Dante-Gabryell Monson Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 3:52 PM To: [email protected] ; p2p-foundation Subject: [P2P-F] "Currency Wars" ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=rAPM7syIcts#t=1040... Financial War Game : "Using Stocks, Bonds, Currencies and Derivatives to fight a war... " "Fiat - Organized theft, giving it to the elites" "Europe can not pay its debt, but you can print some SDR's... " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_G._Rickards http://www.amazon.com/Currency-Wars-Making-Global-Portfolio/dp/1591844495/re... SDR : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Drawing_Rights /// http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_war Currency war, also known as competitive devaluation, is a condition in international affairs where countries compete against each other to achieve a relatively low exchange rate for their own currency. As the price to buy a particular currency falls, so to does the real price of exports from the country. Imports become more expensive too, so domestic industry, and thus employment, receives a boost in demand both at home and abroad. However, the price increase in imports can harm citizens' purchasing power. The policy can also trigger retaliatory action by other countries which in turn can lead to a general decline in international trade, harming all countries. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
Sure - thanks for reading. Yes, personally, various views can be of interest, even if only for understanding, or questioning. As for gold, I am personally ok with gold backed currencies for certain complementary currencies for those who choose to use them, but on a large scale, I do not wish to go back to a gold standard, because there is a very limited amount of gold in the world, and this makes it easier to centralize control, hence easy to control a monetary system backed by gold, by buying ( or taking by force ) gold reserves. Hence I personally support a hybrid - networked approach, with a variety of solutions ( some providing community and/or local economic resilience, others easier for global trade, ... ) , as to avoid monopolies in relation to some specific currency or financial/economic system. On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:14 AM, Natalie Golovin <[email protected]> wrote:
Rikards is excellent. He’s also very Christian and a Goldbug. Kudos 4 being broad-minded.
*From:* Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> *Sent:* Thursday, November 10, 2011 3:52 PM *To:* [email protected] ; p2p-foundation<[email protected]> *Subject:* [P2P-F] "Currency Wars" ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=rAPM7syIcts#t=1040...
Financial War Game :
"Using Stocks, Bonds, Currencies and Derivatives to fight a war... "
"Fiat - Organized theft, giving it to the elites"
"Europe can not pay its debt, but you can print some SDR's... "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_G._Rickards
http://www.amazon.com/Currency-Wars-Making-Global-Portfolio/dp/1591844495/re...
SDR :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Drawing_Rights
///
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_war
*Currency war*, also known as *competitive devaluation*, is a condition in international affairs<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_relations>where countries compete against each other to achieve a relatively low exchange rate <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_rate> for their own currency<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency>. As the price to buy a particular currency falls, so to does the real price of exports from the country. Imports become more expensive too, so domestic industry, and thus employment, receives a boost in demand both at home and abroad. However, the price increase in imports can harm citizens' purchasing power <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power>. The policy can also trigger retaliatory action by other countries which in turn can lead to a general decline in international trade, harming all countries.
------------------------------ _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 4:48 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> wrote:
As for gold, I am personally ok with gold backed currencies for certain complementary currencies for those who choose to use them, but on a large scale, I do not wish to go back to a gold standard, because there is a very limited amount of gold in the world, and this makes it easier to centralize control, hence easy to control a monetary system backed by gold, by buying ( or taking by force ) gold reserves.
Hmmm, personally I like the idea of a currency tied to the Earth -- it makes the system less abstract, and perhaps even self-organizing. Being able to reproduce currency easy doesn't necessarily make it better (that's one of the grives of the #occupy movement against the Fed). It's limitedness is what gives it value. As for the idea that its limitedness making it easier to control, I don't think in the history of the world that there has ever been a gold "resevoir" that made such a danger likely. As far as I know, most gold is extracted piecemeal from thousands of sources, probably because the way it originates from stars and gets distributed widely. But, to be sure, it does "stack the deck" in favor of those who find it, but it takes work -- there are few "gold tycoons". I would love to see gold coins in standardized weights used for a world currency, with each nation printing their unique traits on their own versions. How awesome would that be -- to be handed a gold coin from Namibia when you get your change from the laundromat and have it be perfectly legal tender? marcos
Thanks Mark. Yes, Aesthetically I can find attractiveness in such item, independently from owning it. Without wanting to discredit such potential, I also realize that it may not be exaggerated to say that sadly a lot of the bright golden color may likely be tainted by blood ( judging by history ). Unfortunately, it is so too with any tool of power, including current fiat currency. Hence, if I could choose some "ideal", without taking into consideration many other aspects, I guess I'd prefer remaining within gift economics, and better still, some forms of gift economics that do not stay attached to material value, with the awareness of supporting a holistic process, supporting commons. I am not specifically primitivist, and like to use technological solutions, yet I also feel attracted by certain cultures, including certain nomadic cultures, and remember an excerpt from a movie called "The Gods Must be Crazy" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gods_Must_Be_Crazy ) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCQIGiXf0JA "here is a thing that could not be shared..." /// Anyway, back to (alternative?) currencies, there is a proposal of a commodity backed basket currency, called "Terra" http://p2pfoundation.net/Terra I can imagine a world where each of such approaches can have its usage, while also hoping people will reduce their usage of the ones that concentrate power into the hands of a minority. On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:03 PM, Mark Janssen <[email protected]>wrote:
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 4:48 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> wrote:
As for gold, I am personally ok with gold backed currencies for certain complementary currencies for those who choose to use them, but on a large scale, I do not wish to go back to a gold standard, because there is a very limited amount of gold in the world, and this makes it easier to centralize control, hence easy to control a monetary system backed by gold, by buying ( or taking by force ) gold reserves.
Hmmm, personally I like the idea of a currency tied to the Earth -- it makes the system less abstract, and perhaps even self-organizing. Being able to reproduce currency easy doesn't necessarily make it better (that's one of the grives of the #occupy movement against the Fed). It's limitedness is what gives it value. As for the idea that its limitedness making it easier to control, I don't think in the history of the world that there has ever been a gold "resevoir" that made such a danger likely. As far as I know, most gold is extracted piecemeal from thousands of sources, probably because the way it originates from stars and gets distributed widely. But, to be sure, it does "stack the deck" in favor of those who find it, but it takes work -- there are few "gold tycoons".
I would love to see gold coins in standardized weights used for a world currency, with each nation printing their unique traits on their own versions. How awesome would that be -- to be handed a gold coin from Namibia when you get your change from the laundromat and have it be perfectly legal tender?
marcos
You got it! But you don't have to go as far as a gold standard to break the lock of fiat money-just decriminalize alternatives -----Original Message----- From: Mark Janssen Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 1:03 PM To: [email protected] ; P2P Foundation mailing list Subject: Re: [P2P-F] "Currency Wars" ? On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 4:48 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> wrote:
As for gold, I am personally ok with gold backed currencies for certain complementary currencies for those who choose to use them, but on a large scale, I do not wish to go back to a gold standard, because there is a very limited amount of gold in the world, and this makes it easier to centralize control, hence easy to control a monetary system backed by gold, by buying ( or taking by force ) gold reserves.
Hmmm, personally I like the idea of a currency tied to the Earth -- it makes the system less abstract, and perhaps even self-organizing. Being able to reproduce currency easy doesn't necessarily make it better (that's one of the grives of the #occupy movement against the Fed). It's limitedness is what gives it value. As for the idea that its limitedness making it easier to control, I don't think in the history of the world that there has ever been a gold "resevoir" that made such a danger likely. As far as I know, most gold is extracted piecemeal from thousands of sources, probably because the way it originates from stars and gets distributed widely. But, to be sure, it does "stack the deck" in favor of those who find it, but it takes work -- there are few "gold tycoons". I would love to see gold coins in standardized weights used for a world currency, with each nation printing their unique traits on their own versions. How awesome would that be -- to be handed a gold coin from Namibia when you get your change from the laundromat and have it be perfectly legal tender? marcos _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
It's my understanding that only "legal tender" is legal. Of course, the govt won't attempt to get involved in local community barter arrangements if they stay low on Fed radar. But it won't let those grow....just like med marijuana -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Anderson Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 4:50 PM To: P2P Foundation mailing list Subject: Re: [P2P-F] "Currency Wars" ? Natalie Golovin wrote:
just decriminalize alternatives
Are you saying the various community currencies being used now are illegal? I heard the Liberty Dollar guys were attacked, but I don't know the details... thx _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
Hi Mark , Natalie, Patrick and all, Mark ( Janssen ) , I notice you may be into graph theory ? Could this interest you ? ( or anyone here reading this ) http://www.automenta.com/netention usage I would like to share from it ( when it is developed ) http://sharewiki.org/en/Transaction_Graphs // Patrick, it seems there has been an outcome from proceedings : http://www.zerohedge.com/print/338064 // till then, as shared in a previous post by Kevin, Mutual Credit / Time Banks seem to be accepted ( ? ), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_banking - reciprocal service exchange - based on this form of accountancy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_credit or other currencies, such as 100 percent guaranteed ( by dollar credit ) regional Freigeld currencies too ( or at least, in Europe - and in a some cases I hear they first ask permission to the central bank ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freigeld who in many cases use "demurrage" to reduce hoarding / encourage liquidity in the local economy. // I may be deviating from the initial topic... but since I joined in in expressing my preferences and wishes, here goes : I do not know if any of you is into humanitarian / development work ? I notice millions are spent in humanitarian aid, yet very often directly in dollars or mainstream currencies, sometimes not even invested into the local economy ( other then the infrastructure that may remain after that passage of foreign NGO's ). I feel supporting local economies / local development can be multiplied by using the same amount of dollar money yet using a complementary currency ( a currency 100 percent guaranteed by this "real" money - which seems to be legal and does not require a banking permit ) , hence enabling it to circulate faster ( if it has demurrage ) - hence increasing local liquidity and exchanges - and reduce its likeliness to get hoarded outside of the local economy. Such solutions may seem simple enough to implement, yet then I realize I am just an individual, and it requires collaboration. I see potential in being able to define such approaches with tools which I hope will be operational soon, such as http://www.automenta.com/netention I would also like to see this implemented in conjuction with a basic income, such as experimented in Namibia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_guarantee#Examples_of_implementati... http://www.bignam.org/ On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 2:29 AM, Natalie Golovin <[email protected]> wrote:
It's my understanding that only "legal tender" is legal. Of course, the govt won't attempt to get involved in local community barter arrangements if they stay low on Fed radar. But it won't let those grow....just like med marijuana
-----Original Message----- From: Patrick Anderson Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 4:50 PM To: P2P Foundation mailing list Subject: Re: [P2P-F] "Currency Wars" ?
Natalie Golovin wrote:
just decriminalize alternatives
Are you saying the various community currencies being used now are illegal?
I heard the Liberty Dollar guys were attacked, but I don't know the details...
thx
_______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
_______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 7:29 PM, Natalie Golovin <[email protected]> wrote:
It's my understanding that only "legal tender" is legal. Of course, the govt won't attempt to get involved in local community barter arrangements if they stay low on Fed radar. But it won't let those grow....just like med marijuana
I don't think community currencies as such violate the legal tender laws. But when they cross the line into stuff that could be plausibly interpreted as the activity of an unlicensed bank (e.g. the way Greco's system arguably issues credit by allowing people to run negative balances), they're open to state sanction. Of course by that standard a grocer or shoe repair shop that lets customers run a tab is also an unlicensed bank, so as you said re legal tender laws, a lot of it has to do with visibility. The more people turn to such alternatives, and the more hostile conventional banks become, the more the state will crack down (much like the brick-and-mortar retailers instigating govt crackdowns on foodbuying clubs, etc.) I imagine that letting a hundred flowers bloom, as the state-corporate economy dries up, will result in an entire ecosystem with different currencies filling different niches. The more trust-based the system, as in opt-in platforms where there are ongoing relationships rather than one-offs and people's livelihoods will depend on their reputations, the more the money will function as a unit of account rather than a store of value, and take on the character of interest-free credit. The weaker the trust relationships, as in one-off dealings between people who don't know each other, the more likely it is that currency will be backed by something. -- Kevin Carson Research Associate, Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Desktop Regulatory State: The Countervailing Power of Super-Empowered Individuals http://desktopregulatorystate.wordpress.com Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
Yes, the possible centralization (and physical capture) of gold seems to be one of the reasons that gold as currecy (or gold-backed currency) goes relatively tightly together with imperial and expansive-aggressive regimes, as David Graeber points out in his book Debt. Quoting Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]>:
Sure - thanks for reading.
Yes, personally, various views can be of interest, even if only for understanding, or questioning.
As for gold, I am personally ok with gold backed currencies for certain complementary currencies for those who choose to use them,
but on a large scale, I do not wish to go back to a gold standard, because there is a very limited amount of gold in the world, and this makes it easier to centralize control, hence easy to control a monetary system backed by gold, by buying ( or taking by force ) gold reserves.
Hence I personally support a hybrid - networked approach, with a variety of solutions ( some providing community and/or local economic resilience, others easier for global trade, ... ) , as to avoid monopolies in relation to some specific currency or financial/economic system.
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:14 AM, Natalie Golovin <[email protected]> wrote:
Rikards is excellent. He?s also very Christian and a Goldbug. Kudos 4 being broad-minded.
*From:* Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> *Sent:* Thursday, November 10, 2011 3:52 PM *To:* [email protected] ; p2p-foundation<[email protected]> *Subject:* [P2P-F] "Currency Wars" ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=rAPM7syIcts#t=1040...
Financial War Game :
"Using Stocks, Bonds, Currencies and Derivatives to fight a war... "
"Fiat - Organized theft, giving it to the elites"
"Europe can not pay its debt, but you can print some SDR's... "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_G._Rickards
http://www.amazon.com/Currency-Wars-Making-Global-Portfolio/dp/1591844495/re...
SDR :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Drawing_Rights
///
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_war
*Currency war*, also known as *competitive devaluation*, is a condition in international affairs<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_relations>where countries compete against each other to achieve a relatively low exchange rate <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_rate> for their own currency<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency>. As the price to buy a particular currency falls, so to does the real price of exports from the country. Imports become more expensive too, so domestic industry, and thus employment, receives a boost in demand both at home and abroad. However, the price increase in imports can harm citizens' purchasing power <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power>. The policy can also trigger retaliatory action by other countries which in turn can lead to a general decline in international trade, harming all countries.
------------------------------ _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
tere, do you have the page numbers or secion headings 4 that? On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 5:51 PM, Tere Vaden <[email protected]> wrote:
Yes, the possible centralization (and physical capture) of gold seems to be one of the reasons that gold as currecy (or gold-backed currency) goes relatively tightly together with imperial and expansive-aggressive regimes, as David Graeber points out in his book Debt.
Quoting Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]>:
Sure - thanks for reading.
Yes, personally, various views can be of interest, even if only for understanding, or questioning.
As for gold, I am personally ok with gold backed currencies for certain complementary currencies for those who choose to use them,
but on a large scale, I do not wish to go back to a gold standard, because there is a very limited amount of gold in the world, and this makes it easier to centralize control, hence easy to control a monetary system backed by gold, by buying ( or taking by force ) gold reserves.
Hence I personally support a hybrid - networked approach, with a variety of solutions ( some providing community and/or local economic resilience, others easier for global trade, ... ) , as to avoid monopolies in relation to some specific currency or financial/economic system.
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:14 AM, Natalie Golovin <[email protected]> wrote:
Rikards is excellent. He?s also very Christian and a Goldbug. Kudos 4 being broad-minded.
*From:* Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> *Sent:* Thursday, November 10, 2011 3:52 PM *To:* [email protected] ; p2p-foundation<[email protected]> *Subject:* [P2P-F] "Currency Wars" ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=rAPM7syIcts#t=1040...
Financial War Game :
"Using Stocks, Bonds, Currencies and Derivatives to fight a war... "
"Fiat - Organized theft, giving it to the elites"
"Europe can not pay its debt, but you can print some SDR's... "
http://www.amazon.com/Currency-Wars-Making-Global-Portfolio/dp/1591844495/re...
SDR :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Drawing_Rights
///
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_war
*Currency war*, also known as *competitive devaluation*, is a condition in international affairs<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_relations>where countries compete against each other to achieve a relatively low exchange rate <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_rate> for their own currency<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency>. As the price to buy a particular currency falls, so to does the real
price
of exports from the country. Imports become more expensive too, so domestic industry, and thus employment, receives a boost in demand both at home and abroad. However, the price increase in imports can harm citizens' purchasing power <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power>. The policy can also trigger retaliatory action by other countries which in turn can lead to a general decline in international trade, harming all countries.
------------------------------ _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
_______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
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Ch 8, CREDIT VERSUS BULLION AND THE CYCLES OF HISTORY, e.g., p. 213: "If we look at Eurasian history over the course of the last five thou sand years, what we see is a broad alternation between periods domi nated by credit money and periods in which gold and silver come to dominate-that is, those during which at least a large share of transac tions were conducted with pieces of valuable metal being passed from hand to hand. Why? The single most important factor would appear to be war. Bullion predominates, above all, in periods of generalized violence. There's a very simple reason for that. Gold and silver coins are distin guished from credit arrangements by on� spectacular feature: they can be stolen. A debt is, by definition, a record, as well as a relation of trust. Someone accepting gold or silver in exchange for merchandise, on the other hand, need trust nothing more than the accuracy of the scales, the quality of the metal, and the likelihood that someone else will be willing to accept it. In a world where war and the threat of violence are everywhere-and this appears to have been an equally ac curate description of Warring States China, Iron Age Greece, and pre Mauryan India-there are obvious advantages to making one's trans actions simple. This is all the more true when dealing with soldiers." On 11/12/11 2:05 PM, Michel Bauwens wrote:
tere, do you have the page numbers or secion headings 4 that?
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 5:51 PM, Tere Vaden <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Yes, the possible centralization (and physical capture) of gold seems to be one of the reasons that gold as currecy (or gold-backed currency) goes relatively tightly together with imperial and expansive-aggressive regimes, as David Graeber points out in his book Debt.
Quoting Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>:
> Sure - thanks for reading. > > Yes, personally, various views can be of interest, even if only for > understanding, or questioning. > > As for gold, I am personally ok with gold backed currencies for certain > complementary currencies for those who choose to use them, > > but on a large scale, I do not wish to go back to a gold standard, > because there is a very limited amount of gold in the world, > and this makes it easier to centralize control, > hence easy to control a monetary system backed by gold, > by buying ( or taking by force ) gold reserves. > > Hence I personally support a hybrid - networked approach, > with a variety of solutions ( some providing community and/or local > economic resilience, others easier for global trade, ... ) , as to avoid > monopolies in relation to some specific currency or financial/economic > system. > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:14 AM, Natalie Golovin <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> Rikards is excellent. He?s also very Christian and a Goldbug. Kudos 4 >> being broad-minded. >> >> *From:* Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> *Sent:* Thursday, November 10, 2011 3:52 PM >> *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ; >> p2p-foundation<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> *Subject:* [P2P-F] "Currency Wars" ? >> >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=rAPM7syIcts#t=1040... <http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=rAPM7syIcts#t=1040s> >> >> Financial War Game : >> >> "Using Stocks, Bonds, Currencies and Derivatives to fight a war... " >> >> "Fiat - Organized theft, giving it to the elites" >> >> "Europe can not pay its debt, but you can print some SDR's... " >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_G._Rickards >> >> >> http://www.amazon.com/Currency-Wars-Making-Global-Portfolio/dp/1591844495/re... <http://www.amazon.com/Currency-Wars-Making-Global-Portfolio/dp/1591844495/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314198116&sr=8-1> >> >> SDR : >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Drawing_Rights >> >> /// >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_war >> >> *Currency war*, also known as *competitive devaluation*, is a condition >> in international >> affairs<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_relations>where >> countries compete against each other to achieve a relatively low >> exchange >> rate <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_rate> for their own >> currency<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency>. >> As the price to buy a particular currency falls, so to does the real price >> of exports from the country. Imports become more expensive too, so domestic >> industry, and thus employment, receives a boost in demand both at home and >> abroad. However, the price increase in imports can harm citizens' purchasing >> power <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power>. The policy can >> also trigger retaliatory action by other countries which in turn can lead >> to a general decline in international trade, harming all countries. >> >> ------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> P2P Foundation - Mailing list >> http://www.p2pfoundation.net >> https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation >> >> >
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http://p2pfoundation.net/First_Five_Thousand_Years_of_Debt#Credit_vs_gold_in... thanks!! On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 4:58 AM, Tere Vadén <[email protected]> wrote:
Ch 8, CREDIT VERSUS BULLION AND THE CYCLES OF HISTORY, e.g., p. 213:
"If we look at Eurasian history over the course of the last five thou sand years, what we see is a broad alternation between periods domi nated by credit money and periods in which gold and silver come to dominate-that is, those during which at least a large share of transac tions were conducted with pieces of valuable metal being passed from hand to hand. Why? The single most important factor would appear to be war. Bullion predominates, above all, in periods of generalized violence. There's a very simple reason for that. Gold and silver coins are distin guished from credit arrangements by on� spectacular feature: they can be stolen. A debt is, by definition, a record, as well as a relation of trust. Someone accepting gold or silver in exchange for merchandise, on the other hand, need trust nothing more than the accuracy of the scales, the quality of the metal, and the likelihood that someone else will be willing to accept it. In a world where war and the threat of violence are everywhere-and this appears to have been an equally ac curate description of Warring States China, Iron Age Greece, and pre Mauryan India-there are obvious advantages to making one's trans actions simple. This is all the more true when dealing with soldiers."
On 11/12/11 2:05 PM, Michel Bauwens wrote:
tere, do you have the page numbers or secion headings 4 that?
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 5:51 PM, Tere Vaden <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Yes, the possible centralization (and physical capture) of gold seems to be one of the reasons that gold as currecy (or gold-backed currency) goes relatively tightly together with imperial and expansive-aggressive regimes, as David Graeber points out in his book Debt.
Quoting Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]**>>:
> Sure - thanks for reading. > > Yes, personally, various views can be of interest, even if only for > understanding, or questioning. > > As for gold, I am personally ok with gold backed currencies for certain > complementary currencies for those who choose to use them, > > but on a large scale, I do not wish to go back to a gold standard, > because there is a very limited amount of gold in the world, > and this makes it easier to centralize control, > hence easy to control a monetary system backed by gold, > by buying ( or taking by force ) gold reserves. > > Hence I personally support a hybrid - networked approach, > with a variety of solutions ( some providing community and/or local > economic resilience, others easier for global trade, ... ) , as to avoid > monopolies in relation to some specific currency or financial/economic > system. > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:14 AM, Natalie Golovin <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> Rikards is excellent. He?s also very Christian and a Goldbug. Kudos 4 >> being broad-minded. >> >> *From:* Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]**>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 10, 2011 3:52 PM >> *To:* [email protected] <mailto:econowmix@**googlegroups.com <[email protected]>> ; >> p2p-foundation<p2p-foundation@**lists.ourproject.org<[email protected]> <mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.**ourproject.org<[email protected]>
>> *Subject:* [P2P-F] "Currency Wars" ? >> >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**feature=player_profilepage&v=** rAPM7syIcts#t=1040s<http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=rAPM7syIcts#t=1040s> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?**feature=player_profilepage&v=** rAPM7syIcts#t=1040s<http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=rAPM7syIcts#t=1040s>
>> >> Financial War Game : >> >> "Using Stocks, Bonds, Currencies and Derivatives to fight a war... " >> >> "Fiat - Organized theft, giving it to the elites" >> >> "Europe can not pay its debt, but you can print some SDR's... " >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**James_G._Rickards<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_G._Rickards> >> >> >> http://www.amazon.com/**Currency-Wars-Making-Global-** Portfolio/dp/1591844495/ref=**sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314198116&**sr=8-1<http://www.amazon.com/Currency-Wars-Making-Global-Portfolio/dp/1591844495/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314198116&sr=8-1> <http://www.amazon.com/**Currency-Wars-Making-Global-** Portfolio/dp/1591844495/ref=**sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314198116&**sr=8-1<http://www.amazon.com/Currency-Wars-Making-Global-Portfolio/dp/1591844495/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314198116&sr=8-1>
>> >> SDR : >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Special_Drawing_Rights<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Drawing_Rights> >> >> /// >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Currency_war<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_war> >> >> *Currency war*, also known as *competitive devaluation*, is a condition >> in international >> affairs<http://en.wikipedia.**org/wiki/International_**relations<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_relations>
where >> countries compete against each other to achieve a relatively low >> exchange >> rate <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Exchange_rate<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_rate>> for their own >> currency<http://en.wikipedia.**org/wiki/Currency<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency> . >> As the price to buy a particular currency falls, so to does the real price >> of exports from the country. Imports become more expensive too, so domestic >> industry, and thus employment, receives a boost in demand both at home and >> abroad. However, the price increase in imports can harm citizens' purchasing >> power <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Purchasing_power<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power>>. The policy can >> also trigger retaliatory action by other countries which in turn can lead >> to a general decline in international trade, harming all countries. >> >> ------------------------------ >> ______________________________**_________________ >> P2P Foundation - Mailing list >> http://www.p2pfoundation.net >> https://lists.ourproject.org/**cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-** foundation<https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation> >> >> >
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participants (8)
-
Dante-Gabryell Monson -
Kevin Carson -
Mark Janssen -
Michel Bauwens -
Natalie Golovin -
Patrick Anderson -
Tere Vaden -
Tere Vadén