As a starter..How about an immediate audit of the FED-and decriminalizing currencies. These don’t come close to ending the FED or going to a gold standard. Sometimes slogans overshoot objectives to overcome public inertia. I’m thinking of ways we can create your on-line debate and bring in a representative cast of characters that can control their aggression. From: Natalie Golovin Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 11:48 AM To: P2P Foundation mailing list Subject: Re: [P2P-F] is ending the fed a bad idea? Great Opening Salvo-Good Idea! From: Michel Bauwens Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 11:16 AM To: p2p-foundation Subject: [P2P-F] is ending the fed a bad idea? I would love to publish a debate about this position: see: http://www.alternet.org/story/152810/four_things_occupy_wall_street_should_k... -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Kevin, can we really say there is a monopoly now, with all the local currencies in existence, bitcoin, the private creation of money by banks, commercial currencies such as airmiles etc ... I notice that your comments align well with MMT principles ... (spending money into circulation) Michel On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:20 AM, Kevin Carson < [email protected]> wrote:

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:

...

I would love to publish a debate about this position:

see:

http://www.alternet.org/story/152810/four_things_occupy_wall_street_should_k... ?

...

This is not so much a left-wing argument as a managerialist-liberal one. There seem to be a lot of people who assume that the only alternatives out there are vanilla-flavored managerial liberalism and "right wing." And anyone who makes decentralist noises or has problems with large institutions or bureaucracy is a "right-winger." It's the left-wing counterpart of the talk radio idiot who hears a Paulista talking about non-intervention and thinks it's a "librull."

And it makes some utterly unsupported assumptions -- for example, that everyone calling for the abolition of the Fed is a right-winger or a hard-currency goldbug.

In fact the anti-Fed movement is a house with many mansions, all over the political spectrum. I'm a left-winger more friendly to Greco's barter currencies than to the gold standard, but I'm all for abolishing the Fed.

It's certainly true, as Blumgart says, that central banks control the money supply. But the Fed is a bank-owned cartel that controls the money supply by lending it into existence at interest. Even if I believed in the need for a central government control of the money supply, it would make just as much sense to meet the need for more currency by spending it into existence along the lines of Lincoln's Greenback policy, or depositing it into existence in people's checking accounts as the Social Credit people want to do.

I'd like to see something with Bitcoin's decentralized, encrypted p2p architecture, but organized on the principles of Greco's mutual credit-clearing network, as a subplatform of Freenet, that could be adopted on a scalable basis by the people in any locality who wanted to organize a local currency under cover of a darknet. But to the extent that such systems advance credit by allowing members to run negative balances, they fall afoul of bank licensing laws. We need to eliminate the state's money monopoly and let a thousand flowers bloom.

-- Kevin Carson Research Associate, Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Desktop Regulatory State: The Countervailing Power of Super-Empowered Individuals http://desktopregulatorystate.wordpress.com Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html

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-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

Given that the Tea Party & OWS agree on the FED, it initially made sense to me they could combine for the limited purpose of exerting maximum political pressure-starting with demanding a full audit. Yves Smith disagrees, and told me in an email OWS would never engage in a marriage of convenience with the Nativists they abhor. The pols & bankers of opposite ideologies managed to field a winning team-will the other (opposites) remain divided and powerless? Unless we welcome war/anarchy-why not proceed with one issue-see how that plays out for the benefit of all citizens (wealth distribution) and go from there. I respect Yves so much-I'm giving up hope. -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Carson Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 6:20 PM To: P2P Foundation mailing list Subject: Re: [P2P-F] is ending the fed a bad idea? On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:

I would love to publish a debate about this position:

see: http://www.alternet.org/story/152810/four_things_occupy_wall_street_should_k...

This is not so much a left-wing argument as a managerialist-liberal one. There seem to be a lot of people who assume that the only alternatives out there are vanilla-flavored managerial liberalism and "right wing." And anyone who makes decentralist noises or has problems with large institutions or bureaucracy is a "right-winger." It's the left-wing counterpart of the talk radio idiot who hears a Paulista talking about non-intervention and thinks it's a "librull." And it makes some utterly unsupported assumptions -- for example, that everyone calling for the abolition of the Fed is a right-winger or a hard-currency goldbug. In fact the anti-Fed movement is a house with many mansions, all over the political spectrum. I'm a left-winger more friendly to Greco's barter currencies than to the gold standard, but I'm all for abolishing the Fed. It's certainly true, as Blumgart says, that central banks control the money supply. But the Fed is a bank-owned cartel that controls the money supply by lending it into existence at interest. Even if I believed in the need for a central government control of the money supply, it would make just as much sense to meet the need for more currency by spending it into existence along the lines of Lincoln's Greenback policy, or depositing it into existence in people's checking accounts as the Social Credit people want to do. I'd like to see something with Bitcoin's decentralized, encrypted p2p architecture, but organized on the principles of Greco's mutual credit-clearing network, as a subplatform of Freenet, that could be adopted on a scalable basis by the people in any locality who wanted to organize a local currency under cover of a darknet. But to the extent that such systems advance credit by allowing members to run negative balances, they fall afoul of bank licensing laws. We need to eliminate the state's money monopoly and let a thousand flowers bloom. -- Kevin Carson Research Associate, Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Desktop Regulatory State: The Countervailing Power of Super-Empowered Individuals http://desktopregulatorystate.wordpress.com Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Devin-Where did you find this out? From: Devin Balkind Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 8:13 PM To: P2P Foundation mailing list Subject: Re: [P2P-F] is ending the fed a bad idea? Occupying forces, tea party groups and Paulites will rally together to end the fed on November 22nd. On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Natalie Golovin <[email protected]> wrote: Given that the Tea Party & OWS agree on the FED, it initially made sense to me they could combine for the limited purpose of exerting maximum political pressure-starting with demanding a full audit. Yves Smith disagrees, and told me in an email OWS would never engage in a marriage of convenience with the Nativists they abhor. The pols & bankers of opposite ideologies managed to field a winning team-will the other (opposites) remain divided and powerless? Unless we welcome war/anarchy-why not proceed with one issue-see how that plays out for the benefit of all citizens (wealth distribution) and go from there. I respect Yves so much-I'm giving up hope. -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Carson Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 6:20 PM To: P2P Foundation mailing list Subject: Re: [P2P-F] is ending the fed a bad idea? On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:

I would love to publish a debate about this position:

see: http://www.alternet.org/story/152810/four_things_occupy_wall_street_should_k...

This is not so much a left-wing argument as a managerialist-liberal one. There seem to be a lot of people who assume that the only alternatives out there are vanilla-flavored managerial liberalism and "right wing." And anyone who makes decentralist noises or has problems with large institutions or bureaucracy is a "right-winger." It's the left-wing counterpart of the talk radio idiot who hears a Paulista talking about non-intervention and thinks it's a "librull." And it makes some utterly unsupported assumptions -- for example, that everyone calling for the abolition of the Fed is a right-winger or a hard-currency goldbug. In fact the anti-Fed movement is a house with many mansions, all over the political spectrum. I'm a left-winger more friendly to Greco's barter currencies than to the gold standard, but I'm all for abolishing the Fed. It's certainly true, as Blumgart says, that central banks control the money supply. But the Fed is a bank-owned cartel that controls the money supply by lending it into existence at interest. Even if I believed in the need for a central government control of the money supply, it would make just as much sense to meet the need for more currency by spending it into existence along the lines of Lincoln's Greenback policy, or depositing it into existence in people's checking accounts as the Social Credit people want to do. I'd like to see something with Bitcoin's decentralized, encrypted p2p architecture, but organized on the principles of Greco's mutual credit-clearing network, as a subplatform of Freenet, that could be adopted on a scalable basis by the people in any locality who wanted to organize a local currency under cover of a darknet. But to the extent that such systems advance credit by allowing members to run negative balances, they fall afoul of bank licensing laws. We need to eliminate the state's money monopoly and let a thousand flowers bloom. -- Kevin Carson Research Associate, Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Desktop Regulatory State: The Countervailing Power of Super-Empowered Individuals http://desktopregulatorystate.wordpress.com Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation -- Devin Balkind Director, Sarapis Foundation [email protected] @devinbalkind -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation