Re: [P2P-F] [commoning] Greek Vice-President explicitely endorses commons strategy before parliament
Perhaps, the next intl conference on the commons should be held in Greece... Roberto Verzola On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:52:05 -0700 "Wolfgang Hoeschele" <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Friends,
Very interesting discussion!
I wonder is there opportunity (or need) to promote commons or p2p concepts directly with the Greek government? How much are they in touch with these movements in Greece and internationally? Can it be useful to them if networking with us shows EU negotiators that 1) there are proponents of a new approach around Europe and elsewhere (i.e., Syriza is not alone in searching for new alternatives that break the "grow like mad or die" alternative?), and 2) there are actual models that can be implemented and there are people both inside and outside Greece who can help make it possible?
It seems to me that there is very little time available for the Greek negotiators to achieve a breakthrough and thereby allow space for new approaches to flourish in Greece, or else to fail, leading to a resumption of austerity policies (with, I fear, disastrous results for Greek politics, because I have no idea to whom Greek voters would then turn). So, if we can do something internationally to help in this process, it might be very important to do so now. Since there are Greek participants in this list, I would very much like to hear from you what you think about this.
By the way, personally this also interests me because as a teenager, when my father was working in Athens, I lived there - so there is that personal connection!
Best wishes, Wolfgang
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [commoning] [P2P-F] Greek Vice-President explicitely endorses commons strategy before parliament From: George Papanikolaou <[email protected]> Date: Wed, February 11, 2015 10:09 pm To: Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> Cc: Vasilis Kostakis <[email protected]>, [email protected], Commoning <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Commoning List <[email protected]>
Eleftherios thank you for the translation. Knowing Greek politics and considering that Dragasakis is the nr 2 (not to say nr 1) in the Greek government, I think this is an important statement. It shows profound thinking and his openness to the commons ideas.
Best regards George
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> wrote: Sorry for my previous half finished message.
Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)
"Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"
The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter of the commons personally and in public is the following.
I would like to, conclude with the permission of the President, with a general thought. Often in everyday life we all live events happening that only hindsight their importance. We live, then, and now a historic era, characterized not only by the crisis and the collapse of obsolete models, but we live a crisis that eventually spawned new models and new social organization models, as was done in the past. In this sense, then, this is an opportunity to take up the deficits of the past, to close this modernization deficit, but by addressing the contemporary social problem of unemployment, social security and social exclusion. This could establish a new paradigm in Greece and other countries of southern Europe, combining advanced forms of democracy, social self-motivation, social justice on a strong foundation of common goods, a society-centric model, which would give dignity and confidence in society hope to the people, optimism in the new generation. Thus, Greece from being the Guenna-pig of austerity and destruction could be the a ground of pioneering ideas and policies, and the benefit would not be just for us. The world would become a security goal in a region of insecurity and "aged" Europe could re-discover through the symbiosis of different development models inside. Let's not rush some say that these are utopias, because there are utopias that are realistic. Are those whose implementation depends not on supernatural powers, but by the unity and collective action of ordinary people in Europe, in Greece and worldwide. Thank you.
Greek speakers could find the original here.
http://www.dragasakis.gr/omiliesparembaseis.php?id=1041
I hope this could help a bit on the conversation.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:43 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> wrote: Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)
"Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"
The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter of the commons.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:50 PM, P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]> wrote: understood Vasilis,
but the big danger is that all the energy goes to crisis management, and that the real transformative work is put on hold for when conditions are right ..
so the only way out is to work on both simultaneously, i.e. work on the crisis while also setting in place the framework for this longer term change,
Michel
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Vasilis Kostakis <[email protected]> wrote: Michel,
The passage you shared was written from memory and I cannot find anywhere on the web (perhaps in video format) the explicit reference. However, I think that my memory is good and more or less this was what the vice-present said. Moreover, allow me to share George Papanikolaou's reaction in relation to my message, in which he highlights that Dragasakis's basic idea was that "the european south can open the way to new productive relations". In addition to this, George emphasizes that "the priority now is to stabilize the situation and give us time for experimentation".
Let's see...
v.
On 11 February 2015 at 17:30, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote: This is very important news:
perhaps George or Vasilis can find the explicit reference ? especially in english ?
see:
" Dragasakis's (vice-president of the government) finale during his speech in the parliament, where he explicitly referred to new bottom-up, Commons-based productive models which will have a global orientation and will fuel Greece's post-crisis sustainable development."
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-- Dr. Vasilis Kostakis
Senior Research Fellow Ragnar Nurkse School of Innovation and Governance
Research Director P2P Lab: http://p2plab.org
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
_______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Commoning mailing list Commons-Institut e.V. Germany [email protected] https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning
there are no plans nor funding for a new big commons conference ... On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Roberto Verzola <[email protected]> wrote:
Perhaps, the next intl conference on the commons should be held in Greece...
Roberto Verzola
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:52:05 -0700 "Wolfgang Hoeschele" <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Friends,
Very interesting discussion!
I wonder is there opportunity (or need) to promote commons or p2p concepts directly with the Greek government? How much are they in touch with these movements in Greece and internationally? Can it be useful to them if networking with us shows EU negotiators that 1) there are proponents of a new approach around Europe and elsewhere (i.e., Syriza is not alone in searching for new alternatives that break the "grow like mad or die" alternative?), and 2) there are actual models that can be implemented and there are people both inside and outside Greece who can help make it possible?
It seems to me that there is very little time available for the Greek negotiators to achieve a breakthrough and thereby allow space for new approaches to flourish in Greece, or else to fail, leading to a resumption of austerity policies (with, I fear, disastrous results for Greek politics, because I have no idea to whom Greek voters would then turn). So, if we can do something internationally to help in this process, it might be very important to do so now. Since there are Greek participants in this list, I would very much like to hear from you what you think about this.
By the way, personally this also interests me because as a teenager, when my father was working in Athens, I lived there - so there is that personal connection!
Best wishes, Wolfgang
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [commoning] [P2P-F] Greek Vice-President explicitely endorses commons strategy before parliament From: George Papanikolaou <[email protected]> Date: Wed, February 11, 2015 10:09 pm To: Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> Cc: Vasilis Kostakis <[email protected]>, [email protected], Commoning <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Commoning List <[email protected]>
Eleftherios thank you for the translation. Knowing Greek politics and considering that Dragasakis is the nr 2 (not to say nr 1) in the Greek government, I think this is an important statement. It shows profound thinking and his openness to the commons ideas.
Best regards George
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> wrote: Sorry for my previous half finished message.
Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)
"Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"
The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter of the commons personally and in public is the following.
I would like to, conclude with the permission of the President, with a general thought. Often in everyday life we all live events happening that only hindsight their importance. We live, then, and now a historic era, characterized not only by the crisis and the collapse of obsolete models, but we live a crisis that eventually spawned new models and new social organization models, as was done in the past. In this sense, then, this is an opportunity to take up the deficits of the past, to close this modernization deficit, but by addressing the contemporary social problem of unemployment, social security and social exclusion. This could establish a new paradigm in Greece and other countries of southern Europe, combining advanced forms of democracy, social self-motivation, social justice on a strong foundation of common goods, a society-centric model, which would give dignity and confidence in society hope to the people, optimism in the new generation. Thus, Greece from being the Guenna-pig of austerity and destruction could be the a ground of pioneering ideas and policies, and the benefit would not be just for us. The world would become a security goal in a region of insecurity and "aged" Europe could re-discover through the symbiosis of different development models inside. Let's not rush some say that these are utopias, because there are utopias that are realistic. Are those whose implementation depends not on supernatural powers, but by the unity and collective action of ordinary people in Europe, in Greece and worldwide. Thank you.
Greek speakers could find the original here.
http://www.dragasakis.gr/omiliesparembaseis.php?id=1041
I hope this could help a bit on the conversation.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:43 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> wrote: Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)
"Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"
The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter of the commons.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:50 PM, P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]> wrote: understood Vasilis,
but the big danger is that all the energy goes to crisis management, and that the real transformative work is put on hold for when conditions are right ..
so the only way out is to work on both simultaneously, i.e. work on the crisis while also setting in place the framework for this longer term change,
Michel
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Vasilis Kostakis <[email protected]> wrote: Michel,
The passage you shared was written from memory and I cannot find anywhere on the web (perhaps in video format) the explicit reference. However, I think that my memory is good and more or less this was what the vice-present said. Moreover, allow me to share George Papanikolaou's reaction in relation to my message, in which he highlights that Dragasakis's basic idea was that "the european south can open the way to new productive relations". In addition to this, George emphasizes that "the priority now is to stabilize the situation and give us time for experimentation".
Let's see...
v.
On 11 February 2015 at 17:30, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote: This is very important news:
perhaps George or Vasilis can find the explicit reference ? especially in english ?
see:
" Dragasakis's (vice-president of the government) finale during his speech in the parliament, where he explicitly referred to new bottom-up, Commons-based productive models which will have a global orientation and will fuel Greece's post-crisis sustainable development."
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-- Dr. Vasilis Kostakis
Senior Research Fellow Ragnar Nurkse School of Innovation and Governance
Research Director P2P Lab: http://p2plab.org
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
_______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Commoning mailing list Commons-Institut e.V. Germany [email protected] https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning
_______________________________________________ Commoning mailing list Commons-Institut e.V. Germany [email protected] https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
This is the high time for forming the rapid deployment force. Can't we call all pool rapid funds, coop-funding, crowdfunding, self-funding... so on to make this happen. If not now, when? Orsan Michel Bauwens schreef op 12-2-2015 om 17:45:
there are no plans nor funding for a new big commons conference ...
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Roberto Verzola <[email protected]> wrote:
Perhaps, the next intl conference on the commons should be held in Greece...
Roberto Verzola
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:52:05 -0700 "Wolfgang Hoeschele" <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Friends,
Very interesting discussion!
I wonder is there opportunity (or need) to promote commons or p2p concepts directly with the Greek government? How much are they in touch with these movements in Greece and internationally? Can it be useful to them if networking with us shows EU negotiators that 1) there are proponents of a new approach around Europe and elsewhere (i.e., Syriza is not alone in searching for new alternatives that break the "grow like mad or die" alternative?), and 2) there are actual models that can be implemented and there are people both inside and outside Greece who can help make it possible?
It seems to me that there is very little time available for the Greek negotiators to achieve a breakthrough and thereby allow space for new approaches to flourish in Greece, or else to fail, leading to a resumption of austerity policies (with, I fear, disastrous results for Greek politics, because I have no idea to whom Greek voters would then turn). So, if we can do something internationally to help in this process, it might be very important to do so now. Since there are Greek participants in this list, I would very much like to hear from you what you think about this.
By the way, personally this also interests me because as a teenager, when my father was working in Athens, I lived there - so there is that personal connection!
Best wishes, Wolfgang
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [commoning] [P2P-F] Greek Vice-President explicitely endorses commons strategy before parliament From: George Papanikolaou <[email protected]> Date: Wed, February 11, 2015 10:09 pm To: Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> Cc: Vasilis Kostakis <[email protected]>, [email protected], Commoning <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Commoning List <[email protected]>
Eleftherios thank you for the translation. Knowing Greek politics and considering that Dragasakis is the nr 2 (not to say nr 1) in the Greek government, I think this is an important statement. It shows profound thinking and his openness to the commons ideas.
Best regards George
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> wrote: Sorry for my previous half finished message.
Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)
"Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"
The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter of the commons personally and in public is the following.
I would like to, conclude with the permission of the President, with a general thought. Often in everyday life we all live events happening that only hindsight their importance. We live, then, and now a historic era, characterized not only by the crisis and the collapse of obsolete models, but we live a crisis that eventually spawned new models and new social organization models, as was done in the past. In this sense, then, this is an opportunity to take up the deficits of the past, to close this modernization deficit, but by addressing the contemporary social problem of unemployment, social security and social exclusion. This could establish a new paradigm in Greece and other countries of southern Europe, combining advanced forms of democracy, social self-motivation, social justice on a strong foundation of common goods, a society-centric model, which would give dignity and confidence in society hope to the people, optimism in the new generation. Thus, Greece from being the Guenna-pig of austerity and destruction could be the a ground of pioneering ideas and policies, and the benefit would not be just for us. The world would become a security goal in a region of insecurity and "aged" Europe could re-discover through the symbiosis of different development models inside. Let's not rush some say that these are utopias, because there are utopias that are realistic. Are those whose implementation depends not on supernatural powers, but by the unity and collective action of ordinary people in Europe, in Greece and worldwide. Thank you.
Greek speakers could find the original here.
http://www.dragasakis.gr/omiliesparembaseis.php?id=1041
I hope this could help a bit on the conversation.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:43 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> wrote: Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)
"Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"
The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter of the commons.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:50 PM, P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]> wrote: understood Vasilis,
but the big danger is that all the energy goes to crisis management, and that the real transformative work is put on hold for when conditions are right ..
so the only way out is to work on both simultaneously, i.e. work on the crisis while also setting in place the framework for this longer term change,
Michel
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Vasilis Kostakis <[email protected]> wrote: Michel,
The passage you shared was written from memory and I cannot find anywhere on the web (perhaps in video format) the explicit reference. However, I think that my memory is good and more or less this was what the vice-present said. Moreover, allow me to share George Papanikolaou's reaction in relation to my message, in which he highlights that Dragasakis's basic idea was that "the european south can open the way to new productive relations". In addition to this, George emphasizes that "the priority now is to stabilize the situation and give us time for experimentation".
Let's see...
v.
On 11 February 2015 at 17:30, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote: This is very important news:
perhaps George or Vasilis can find the explicit reference ? especially in english ?
see:
" Dragasakis's (vice-president of the government) finale during his speech in the parliament, where he explicitly referred to new bottom-up, Commons-based productive models which will have a global orientation and will fuel Greece's post-crisis sustainable development."
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-- Dr. Vasilis Kostakis
Senior Research Fellow Ragnar Nurkse School of Innovation and Governance
Research Director P2P Lab: http://p2plab.org
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
_______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Commoning mailing list Commons-Institut e.V. Germany [email protected] https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning
_______________________________________________ Commoning mailing list Commons-Institut e.V. Germany [email protected] https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning
_______________________________________________ Commoning mailing list [email protected] http://lists.wissensallmende.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
let's ask our greek friends what is the best way we can help them, and then see what we can do collectively ? Michel On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 11:54 PM, Örsan Şenalp <[email protected]> wrote:
This is the high time for forming the rapid deployment force. Can't we call all pool rapid funds, coop-funding, crowdfunding, self-funding... so on to make this happen. If not now, when?
Orsan
Michel Bauwens schreef op 12-2-2015 om 17:45:
there are no plans nor funding for a new big commons conference ...
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Roberto Verzola <[email protected]> wrote:
Perhaps, the next intl conference on the commons should be held in Greece...
Roberto Verzola
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:52:05 -0700 "Wolfgang Hoeschele" <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Friends,
Very interesting discussion!
I wonder is there opportunity (or need) to promote commons or p2p concepts directly with the Greek government? How much are they in touch with these movements in Greece and internationally? Can it be useful to them if networking with us shows EU negotiators that 1) there are proponents of a new approach around Europe and elsewhere (i.e., Syriza is not alone in searching for new alternatives that break the "grow like mad or die" alternative?), and 2) there are actual models that can be implemented and there are people both inside and outside Greece who can help make it possible?
It seems to me that there is very little time available for the Greek negotiators to achieve a breakthrough and thereby allow space for new approaches to flourish in Greece, or else to fail, leading to a resumption of austerity policies (with, I fear, disastrous results for Greek politics, because I have no idea to whom Greek voters would then turn). So, if we can do something internationally to help in this process, it might be very important to do so now. Since there are Greek participants in this list, I would very much like to hear from you what you think about this.
By the way, personally this also interests me because as a teenager, when my father was working in Athens, I lived there - so there is that personal connection!
Best wishes, Wolfgang
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [commoning] [P2P-F] Greek Vice-President explicitely endorses commons strategy before parliament From: George Papanikolaou <[email protected]> Date: Wed, February 11, 2015 10:09 pm To: Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> Cc: Vasilis Kostakis <[email protected]>, [email protected], Commoning <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Commoning List <[email protected]>
Eleftherios thank you for the translation. Knowing Greek politics and considering that Dragasakis is the nr 2 (not to say nr 1) in the Greek government, I think this is an important statement. It shows profound thinking and his openness to the commons ideas.
Best regards George
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> wrote: Sorry for my previous half finished message.
Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)
"Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"
The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter of the commons personally and in public is the following.
I would like to, conclude with the permission of the President, with a general thought. Often in everyday life we all live events happening that only hindsight their importance. We live, then, and now a historic era, characterized not only by the crisis and the collapse of obsolete models, but we live a crisis that eventually spawned new models and new social organization models, as was done in the past. In this sense, then, this is an opportunity to take up the deficits of the past, to close this modernization deficit, but by addressing the contemporary social problem of unemployment, social security and social exclusion. This could establish a new paradigm in Greece and other countries of southern Europe, combining advanced forms of democracy, social self-motivation, social justice on a strong foundation of common goods, a society-centric model, which would give dignity and confidence in society hope to the people, optimism in the new generation. Thus, Greece from being the Guenna-pig of austerity and destruction could be the a ground of pioneering ideas and policies, and the benefit would not be just for us. The world would become a security goal in a region of insecurity and "aged" Europe could re-discover through the symbiosis of different development models inside. Let's not rush some say that these are utopias, because there are utopias that are realistic. Are those whose implementation depends not on supernatural powers, but by the unity and collective action of ordinary people in Europe, in Greece and worldwide. Thank you.
Greek speakers could find the original here.
http://www.dragasakis.gr/omiliesparembaseis.php?id=1041
I hope this could help a bit on the conversation.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:43 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> wrote: Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)
"Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"
The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter of the commons.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:50 PM, P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]> wrote: understood Vasilis,
but the big danger is that all the energy goes to crisis management, and that the real transformative work is put on hold for when conditions are right ..
so the only way out is to work on both simultaneously, i.e. work on the crisis while also setting in place the framework for this longer term change,
Michel
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Vasilis Kostakis <[email protected]> wrote: Michel,
The passage you shared was written from memory and I cannot find anywhere on the web (perhaps in video format) the explicit reference. However, I think that my memory is good and more or less this was what the vice-present said. Moreover, allow me to share George Papanikolaou's reaction in relation to my message, in which he highlights that Dragasakis's basic idea was that "the european south can open the way to new productive relations". In addition to this, George emphasizes that "the priority now is to stabilize the situation and give us time for experimentation".
Let's see...
v.
On 11 February 2015 at 17:30, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote: This is very important news:
perhaps George or Vasilis can find the explicit reference ? especially in english ?
see:
" Dragasakis's (vice-president of the government) finale during his speech in the parliament, where he explicitly referred to new bottom-up, Commons-based productive models which will have a global orientation and will fuel Greece's post-crisis sustainable development."
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-- Dr. Vasilis Kostakis
Senior Research Fellow Ragnar Nurkse School of Innovation and Governance
Research Director P2P Lab: http://p2plab.org
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
_______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Commoning mailing list Commons-Institut e.V. Germany [email protected] https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning
_______________________________________________ Commoning mailing list Commons-Institut e.V. Germany [email protected] https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning
_______________________________________________ Commoning mailing list [email protected] http://lists.wissensallmende.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
A global - glocal rapid deployment force building process can be an exercises to start having the planet as a whole, instead of perceiving it as an territorially divided units that were artificially created for the purpose of imperial expansion of the nation state, and later becoming social structures on their own.. an exercise that would grow the feeling of having one whole planet together, by avoiding to see solidarity as something divided into internal-external, givers receivers, but something done for mutual good, about solving a common and shared problem!
On 12 feb. 2015, at 17:56, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:
let's ask our greek friends what is the best way we can help them, and then see what we can do collectively ?
Michel
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 11:54 PM, Örsan Şenalp <[email protected]> wrote: This is the high time for forming the rapid deployment force. Can't we call all pool rapid funds, coop-funding, crowdfunding, self-funding... so on to make this happen. If not now, when?
Orsan
Michel Bauwens schreef op 12-2-2015 om 17:45:
there are no plans nor funding for a new big commons conference ...
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Roberto Verzola <[email protected]> wrote:
Perhaps, the next intl conference on the commons should be held in Greece...
Roberto Verzola
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:52:05 -0700 "Wolfgang Hoeschele" <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Friends,
Very interesting discussion!
I wonder is there opportunity (or need) to promote commons or p2p concepts directly with the Greek government? How much are they in touch with these movements in Greece and internationally? Can it be useful to them if networking with us shows EU negotiators that 1) there are proponents of a new approach around Europe and elsewhere (i.e., Syriza is not alone in searching for new alternatives that break the "grow like mad or die" alternative?), and 2) there are actual models that can be implemented and there are people both inside and outside Greece who can help make it possible?
It seems to me that there is very little time available for the Greek negotiators to achieve a breakthrough and thereby allow space for new approaches to flourish in Greece, or else to fail, leading to a resumption of austerity policies (with, I fear, disastrous results for Greek politics, because I have no idea to whom Greek voters would then turn). So, if we can do something internationally to help in this process, it might be very important to do so now. Since there are Greek participants in this list, I would very much like to hear from you what you think about this.
By the way, personally this also interests me because as a teenager, when my father was working in Athens, I lived there - so there is that personal connection!
Best wishes, Wolfgang
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [commoning] [P2P-F] Greek Vice-President explicitely endorses commons strategy before parliament From: George Papanikolaou <[email protected]> Date: Wed, February 11, 2015 10:09 pm To: Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> Cc: Vasilis Kostakis <[email protected]>, [email protected], Commoning <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Commoning List <[email protected]>
Eleftherios thank you for the translation. Knowing Greek politics and considering that Dragasakis is the nr 2 (not to say nr 1) in the Greek government, I think this is an important statement. It shows profound thinking and his openness to the commons ideas.
Best regards George
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> wrote: Sorry for my previous half finished message.
Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)
"Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"
The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter of the commons personally and in public is the following.
I would like to, conclude with the permission of the President, with a general thought. Often in everyday life we all live events happening that only hindsight their importance. We live, then, and now a historic era, characterized not only by the crisis and the collapse of obsolete models, but we live a crisis that eventually spawned new models and new social organization models, as was done in the past. In this sense, then, this is an opportunity to take up the deficits of the past, to close this modernization deficit, but by addressing the contemporary social problem of unemployment, social security and social exclusion. This could establish a new paradigm in Greece and other countries of southern Europe, combining advanced forms of democracy, social self-motivation, social justice on a strong foundation of common goods, a society-centric model, which would give dignity and confidence in society hope to the people, optimism in the new generation. Thus, Greece from being the Guenna-pig of austerity and destruction could be the a ground of pioneering ideas and policies, and the benefit would not be just for us. The world would become a security goal in a region of insecurity and "aged" Europe could re-discover through the symbiosis of different development models inside. Let's not rush some say that these are utopias, because there are utopias that are realistic. Are those whose implementation depends not on supernatural powers, but by the unity and collective action of ordinary people in Europe, in Greece and worldwide. Thank you.
Greek speakers could find the original here.
http://www.dragasakis.gr/omiliesparembaseis.php?id=1041
I hope this could help a bit on the conversation.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:43 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> wrote: Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)
"Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"
The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter of the commons.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:50 PM, P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]> wrote: understood Vasilis,
but the big danger is that all the energy goes to crisis management, and that the real transformative work is put on hold for when conditions are right ..
so the only way out is to work on both simultaneously, i.e. work on the crisis while also setting in place the framework for this longer term change,
Michel
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Vasilis Kostakis <[email protected]> wrote: Michel,
The passage you shared was written from memory and I cannot find anywhere on the web (perhaps in video format) the explicit reference. However, I think that my memory is good and more or less this was what the vice-present said. Moreover, allow me to share George Papanikolaou's reaction in relation to my message, in which he highlights that Dragasakis's basic idea was that "the european south can open the way to new productive relations". In addition to this, George emphasizes that "the priority now is to stabilize the situation and give us time for experimentation".
Let's see...
v.
On 11 February 2015 at 17:30, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote: This is very important news:
perhaps George or Vasilis can find the explicit reference ? especially in english ?
see:
" Dragasakis's (vice-president of the government) finale during his speech in the parliament, where he explicitly referred to new bottom-up, Commons-based productive models which will have a global orientation and will fuel Greece's post-crisis sustainable development."
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-- Dr. Vasilis Kostakis
Senior Research Fellow Ragnar Nurkse School of Innovation and Governance
Research Director P2P Lab: http://p2plab.org
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
_______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Commoning mailing list Commons-Institut e.V. Germany [email protected] https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning
_______________________________________________ Commoning mailing list Commons-Institut e.V. Germany [email protected] https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning
_______________________________________________ Commoning mailing list [email protected] http://lists.wissensallmende.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
I think many would back a campaign to make this happen. I would donate and we all know others that would also. Mark -----Original Message----- From: "Örsan Şenalp" <[email protected]> Sent: 12/02/2015 16:54 To: "Michel Bauwens" <[email protected]>; "Roberto Verzola" <[email protected]> Cc: "Vasilis Kostakis" <[email protected]>; "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; "p2p-foundation" <[email protected]>; "Commoning" <[email protected]>; "Eleftherios Kosmas" <[email protected]>; "George Papanikolaou" <[email protected]>; "Commoning List" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [commoning] [Commoning] [P2P-F] Greek Vice-President explicitelyendorses commons strategy before parliament This is the high time for forming the rapid deployment force. Can't we call all pool rapid funds, coop-funding, crowdfunding, self-funding... so on to make this happen. If not now, when? Orsan Michel Bauwens schreef op 12-2-2015 om 17:45:
there are no plans nor funding for a new big commons conference ...
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Roberto Verzola <[email protected]> wrote:
Perhaps, the next intl conference on the commons should be held in Greece...
Roberto Verzola
On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:52:05 -0700 "Wolfgang Hoeschele" <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Friends,
Very interesting discussion!
I wonder is there opportunity (or need) to promote commons or p2p concepts directly with the Greek government? How much are they in touch with these movements in Greece and internationally? Can it be useful to them if networking with us shows EU negotiators that 1) there are proponents of a new approach around Europe and elsewhere (i.e., Syriza is not alone in searching for new alternatives that break the "grow like mad or die" alternative?), and 2) there are actual models that can be implemented and there are people both inside and outside Greece who can help make it possible?
It seems to me that there is very little time available for the Greek negotiators to achieve a breakthrough and thereby allow space for new approaches to flourish in Greece, or else to fail, leading to a resumption of austerity policies (with, I fear, disastrous results for Greek politics, because I have no idea to whom Greek voters would then turn). So, if we can do something internationally to help in this process, it might be very important to do so now. Since there are Greek participants in this list, I would very much like to hear from you what you think about this.
By the way, personally this also interests me because as a teenager, when my father was working in Athens, I lived there - so there is that personal connection!
Best wishes, Wolfgang
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [commoning] [P2P-F] Greek Vice-President explicitely endorses commons strategy before parliament From: George Papanikolaou <[email protected]> Date: Wed, February 11, 2015 10:09 pm To: Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> Cc: Vasilis Kostakis <[email protected]>, [email protected], Commoning <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Commoning List <[email protected]>
Eleftherios thank you for the translation. Knowing Greek politics and considering that Dragasakis is the nr 2 (not to say nr 1) in the Greek government, I think this is an important statement. It shows profound thinking and his openness to the commons ideas.
Best regards George
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> wrote: Sorry for my previous half finished message.
Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)
"Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"
The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter of the commons personally and in public is the following.
I would like to, conclude with the permission of the President, with a general thought. Often in everyday life we all live events happening that only hindsight their importance. We live, then, and now a historic era, characterized not only by the crisis and the collapse of obsolete models, but we live a crisis that eventually spawned new models and new social organization models, as was done in the past. In this sense, then, this is an opportunity to take up the deficits of the past, to close this modernization deficit, but by addressing the contemporary social problem of unemployment, social security and social exclusion. This could establish a new paradigm in Greece and other countries of southern Europe, combining advanced forms of democracy, social self-motivation, social justice on a strong foundation of common goods, a society-centric model, which would give dignity and confidence in society hope to the people, optimism in the new generation. Thus, Greece from being the Guenna-pig of austerity and destruction could be the a ground of pioneering ideas and policies, and the benefit would not be just for us. The world would become a security goal in a region of insecurity and "aged" Europe could re-discover through the symbiosis of different development models inside. Let's not rush some say that these are utopias, because there are utopias that are realistic. Are those whose implementation depends not on supernatural powers, but by the unity and collective action of ordinary people in Europe, in Greece and worldwide. Thank you.
Greek speakers could find the original here.
http://www.dragasakis.gr/omiliesparembaseis.php?id=1041
I hope this could help a bit on the conversation.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:43 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> wrote: Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator)
"Title: Speech during the government's policy statements"
The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter of the commons.
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:50 PM, P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]> wrote: understood Vasilis,
but the big danger is that all the energy goes to crisis management, and that the real transformative work is put on hold for when conditions are right ..
so the only way out is to work on both simultaneously, i.e. work on the crisis while also setting in place the framework for this longer term change,
Michel
On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Vasilis Kostakis <[email protected]> wrote: Michel,
The passage you shared was written from memory and I cannot find anywhere on the web (perhaps in video format) the explicit reference. However, I think that my memory is good and more or less this was what the vice-present said. Moreover, allow me to share George Papanikolaou's reaction in relation to my message, in which he highlights that Dragasakis's basic idea was that "the european south can open the way to new productive relations". In addition to this, George emphasizes that "the priority now is to stabilize the situation and give us time for experimentation".
Let's see...
v.
On 11 February 2015 at 17:30, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote: This is very important news:
perhaps George or Vasilis can find the explicit reference ? especially in english ?
see:
" Dragasakis's (vice-president of the government) finale during his speech in the parliament, where he explicitly referred to new bottom-up, Commons-based productive models which will have a global orientation and will fuel Greece's post-crisis sustainable development."
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-- Dr. Vasilis Kostakis
Senior Research Fellow Ragnar Nurkse School of Innovation and Governance
Research Director P2P Lab: http://p2plab.org
-- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan
P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
_______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Commoning mailing list Commons-Institut e.V. Germany [email protected] https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning
_______________________________________________ Commoning mailing list Commons-Institut e.V. Germany [email protected] https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning
_______________________________________________ Commoning mailing list [email protected] http://lists.wissensallmende.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
_______________________________________________ Commoning mailing list Commons-Institut e.V. Germany [email protected] https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning
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