important debate: fighting cuts in an age of powerdown
http://transitionculture.org/2011/03/15/richard-heinberg-interviewed-in-totn... Dear friends, I have some difficulty in articulating the following issue, and hope you can help me in framing this in the right way, so, here is the problem, on the one hand, we have a classic systemic 'end of wave' crisis of capitalism, a bail-out of the financial class and austerity measures imposed on working people to fund it, hence, a natural mobilization to defend the population against those cuts by 'getting the money where it is' on the other hand, we have a much more systemic systemic crisis due to climate change, peak oil, etc ... and we have forces such as the transition movement, these people are saying, it's useless to fight the cuts, they reflect the end of growth, etc .. in one of the articles I read, I forgot about which town, you could see how these people were talking to the austerity-minded cost-cutting conservative city hall while there was a massive mobilization of the anti-cuts movement going on, so, we have 2 contradictory realities, yes, the current austerity is fake and the money is there but captured by the elite, but, yes, the deeper crisis is also there and we have to think about changing our economic system more fundamentally, and part of this is indeed changing the growth system, etc .. my hunch is that it is essential to be in solidarity with the workers and citizens in the anti-cuts movement, but this somewhat reflective attitude needs an add-on, a broader context, that reflects the second truth, but without putting us on the side of the plutocracy in justifying the cuts .. so, how to formulate the right frame that honours both truths? Michel -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
I ll give it a try: Austerity cuts will not aim de-growth or something like that, it clearly aims rearrangement the path that will take us to the growth, with acceleration if possible. Cuts also means less spending and effort on research and development for transition to alternative/green economy base, if it is intended at all. Both will be an outcome of [capitalist] intra-class struggle over the state. Transition movement and labour class have common interst both in transtion to an alternative socio economic cultural reality and more people and planet focused use of peoples money [or crystilised value created by poeple]. So common strategy needs to be based on reclaiming the state, its organisational transition, so in this way pushing the cracks of the system further -to brake it down, in order to bring about an immedate systemic alteration. just as starting thoughts. Quoting Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>:
http://transitionculture.org/2011/03/15/richard-heinberg-interviewed-in-totn...
Dear friends,
I have some difficulty in articulating the following issue, and hope you can help me in framing this in the right way,
so, here is the problem,
on the one hand, we have a classic systemic 'end of wave' crisis of capitalism, a bail-out of the financial class and austerity measures imposed on working people to fund it, hence, a natural mobilization to defend the population against those cuts by 'getting the money where it is'
on the other hand, we have a much more systemic systemic crisis due to climate change, peak oil, etc ... and we have forces such as the transition movement, these people are saying, it's useless to fight the cuts, they reflect the end of growth, etc .. in one of the articles I read, I forgot about which town, you could see how these people were talking to the austerity-minded cost-cutting conservative city hall while there was a massive mobilization of the anti-cuts movement going on,
so, we have 2 contradictory realities, yes, the current austerity is fake and the money is there but captured by the elite, but, yes, the deeper crisis is also there and we have to think about changing our economic system more fundamentally, and part of this is indeed changing the growth system, etc ..
my hunch is that it is essential to be in solidarity with the workers and citizens in the anti-cuts movement, but this somewhat reflective attitude needs an add-on, a broader context, that reflects the second truth, but without putting us on the side of the plutocracy in justifying the cuts ..
so, how to formulate the right frame that honours both truths?
Michel
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
thanks Orsan, reading with great interest, Michel On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 4:49 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
I ll give it a try:
Austerity cuts will not aim de-growth or something like that, it clearly aims rearrangement the path that will take us to the growth, with acceleration if possible.
Cuts also means less spending and effort on research and development for transition to alternative/green economy base, if it is intended at all.
Both will be an outcome of [capitalist] intra-class struggle over the state.
Transition movement and labour class have common interst both in transtion to an alternative socio economic cultural reality and more people and planet focused use of peoples money [or crystilised value created by poeple].
So common strategy needs to be based on reclaiming the state, its organisational transition, so in this way pushing the cracks of the system further -to brake it down, in order to bring about an immedate systemic alteration.
just as starting thoughts.
Quoting Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>:
http://transitionculture.org/2011/03/15/richard-heinberg-interviewed-in-totn...
Dear friends,
I have some difficulty in articulating the following issue, and hope you can help me in framing this in the right way,
so, here is the problem,
on the one hand, we have a classic systemic 'end of wave' crisis of capitalism, a bail-out of the financial class and austerity measures imposed on working people to fund it, hence, a natural mobilization to defend the population against those cuts by 'getting the money where it is'
on the other hand, we have a much more systemic systemic crisis due to climate change, peak oil, etc ... and we have forces such as the transition movement, these people are saying, it's useless to fight the cuts, they reflect the end of growth, etc .. in one of the articles I read, I forgot about which town, you could see how these people were talking to the austerity-minded cost-cutting conservative city hall while there was a massive mobilization of the anti-cuts movement going on,
so, we have 2 contradictory realities, yes, the current austerity is fake and the money is there but captured by the elite, but, yes, the deeper crisis is also there and we have to think about changing our economic system more fundamentally, and part of this is indeed changing the growth system, etc ..
my hunch is that it is essential to be in solidarity with the workers and citizens in the anti-cuts movement, but this somewhat reflective attitude needs an add-on, a broader context, that reflects the second truth, but without putting us on the side of the plutocracy in justifying the cuts ..
so, how to formulate the right frame that honours both truths?
Michel
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
Michel said : <<so, how to formulate the right frame that honours both truths?>> ---- I am not sure how to formulate it in a way that can be attractive - here is an attempt regarding content of what I would like to communicate related to the question posed. Short Answer : *enable hybrid vector information systems* * * My longer answer : Via an understanding of financial and economic systems ? Proposing *investment of "resources" available*, including by encouraging the use of vectors which can currently enable access to such resources, such as interest bearing central banking monetary architectures, as to get out of dependency of the former system ( without a need for conflict ? ) and build up / empower the use by more and more people of alternative, post-capitalist, non exponential growth oriented economic systems, and peer ownership of such economic modes and its production infrastructure and the resources it can create, which would not be dependent on the current financial and centralized governance vectors ... In other words : *enable hybrid vector systems* usable by all, which systemically can lead a transition towards shared common intentions through empowering each individual to shared choice regarding the conditions of the interdependency of various relational dynamics. On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 7:32 AM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>wrote:
http://transitionculture.org/2011/03/15/richard-heinberg-interviewed-in-totn...
Dear friends,
I have some difficulty in articulating the following issue, and hope you can help me in framing this in the right way,
so, here is the problem,
on the one hand, we have a classic systemic 'end of wave' crisis of capitalism, a bail-out of the financial class and austerity measures imposed on working people to fund it, hence, a natural mobilization to defend the population against those cuts by 'getting the money where it is'
on the other hand, we have a much more systemic systemic crisis due to climate change, peak oil, etc ... and we have forces such as the transition movement, these people are saying, it's useless to fight the cuts, they reflect the end of growth, etc .. in one of the articles I read, I forgot about which town, you could see how these people were talking to the austerity-minded cost-cutting conservative city hall while there was a massive mobilization of the anti-cuts movement going on,
so, we have 2 contradictory realities, yes, the current austerity is fake and the money is there but captured by the elite, but, yes, the deeper crisis is also there and we have to think about changing our economic system more fundamentally, and part of this is indeed changing the growth system, etc ..
my hunch is that it is essential to be in solidarity with the workers and citizens in the anti-cuts movement, but this somewhat reflective attitude needs an add-on, a broader context, that reflects the second truth, but without putting us on the side of the plutocracy in justifying the cuts ..
so, how to formulate the right frame that honours both truths?
Michel
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
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participants (3)
-
Dante-Gabryell Monson -
Michel Bauwens -
orsan＠tie-netherlands.nl