Fwd: Hi Michel - setting up peer production investment scheme in Norway
Thanks a lot Dante, Dear Karthik, if you are still in Oslo, could you find out more about this? Michel ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> Date: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 5:20 PM Subject: Hi Michel - setting up peer production investment scheme in Norway To: Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> Hi Michel I see a lot of potential in setting up an investment portfolio for peer production offered for Norway - for its long term local post-industrial development. I could imagine several billion could be invested in such scheme, which takes into account alternative forms of economics then a speculative capitalist approach. ------------------ In Relation to Norway, and the 500 Billion Sovereign Fund built on oil wealth. On Norwegian News, in English at around 20 minutes : http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/ excerpts : Investing "in your own economy". "Direct investment in your resources" - and into your neighbors. ( such as Iceland ) "Its all about the means of production" "The stock market are shrinking because people in the US and Europe have so much debt" "There is no way of diversifying yourself out of risk if the environment itself is risky" "China invests in what it needs for its economy - such as mines in Africa - " "What kind of economy do we want Norway to look like to be a productive economy" ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Arno Mong Daastoel <[email protected]> Date: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 9:00 AM Subject: [gang8] Michael on Norwegian TV - Februar 11, 2011- Aktuelt - NRK Nett-TV To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Cc: Aslak Sira Myhre <[email protected]>, ISLET-Verlag < [email protected]>, "Michael Hudson (MH)" <[email protected]>, Ursula Backhaus <[email protected]> You will find the interview with Michael starting after 19 minutes, lasting 8+ minutes. It was sent on primed time on the state national channel NRK2 (the serious documentary channel), in a workdays daily debate program that I record every day. http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/ The meeting yesterday in the most popular debate house in Oslo, the House of Literature just behind the Royal Castle, drew a record 400 listeners, making it necessary to set up a video transferral to another hall in addition. His co-debaters were good with serious arguments. Arno __._,_.___ Reply to sender<[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Michael%20on%20Norwegian%20TV%20-%20Februar%2011%2C%202011-%20Aktuelt%20-%20NRK%20Nett-TV>| Reply to group<[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Michael%20on%20Norwegian%20TV%20-%20Februar%2011%2C%202011-%20Aktuelt%20-%20NRK%20Nett-TV>| Reply via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcWlmOGNpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBG1zZ0lkAzE1NTk0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNg--?act=reply&messageNum=15594>| Start a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJldDBsMXU1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNg--> Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/message/15594;_ylc=X3oDMTM2OWY4Nm1rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBG1zZ0lkAzE1NTk0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNgR0cGNJZAMxNTU5NA-->( 1) Recent Activity: Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8;_ylc=X3oDMTJldjNkZjZvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNg--> The gang8 list is devoted to Creditary Economics. 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I could imagine starting with a proposal for a "peer production research and development" centre - as a not for ( speculative ) profit , use value oriented research centre, combined with heterodox economics ( including alternative vector spaces / alternative currencies / alternative resource allocation information systems ) as to channel such new development in a way that does not increase inflation on existing currencies. I could imagine such research centre as a autonomous network of spaces, yet collaborating with some existing design and engineering clusters, and/or universities - such as in Oslo : http://www.uio.no/english/ ; Trondheim : http://www.ntnu.edu/ ; ... and in collaboration with other Nordic Countries via a proposal to some Nordic Council bodies , not for direct funding under the council, but as a deliberation approach to invite these countries, including Norway's Sovereign Fund, to diversify further in local peer production approaches, while maintaining strategic resources owned locally http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Council On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>wrote:
Thanks a lot Dante,
Dear Karthik, if you are still in Oslo, could you find out more about this?
Michel
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> Date: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 5:20 PM Subject: Hi Michel - setting up peer production investment scheme in Norway To: Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>
Hi Michel
I see a lot of potential in setting up an investment portfolio for peer production offered for Norway - for its long term local post-industrial development.
I could imagine several billion could be invested in such scheme, which takes into account alternative forms of economics then a speculative capitalist approach.
------------------
In Relation to Norway, and the 500 Billion Sovereign Fund built on oil wealth.
On Norwegian News, in English at around 20 minutes :
http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/
excerpts :
Investing "in your own economy".
"Direct investment in your resources" - and into your neighbors. ( such as Iceland )
"Its all about the means of production"
"The stock market are shrinking because people in the US and Europe have so much debt"
"There is no way of diversifying yourself out of risk if the environment itself is risky"
"China invests in what it needs for its economy - such as mines in Africa - "
"What kind of economy do we want Norway to look like to be a productive economy"
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Arno Mong Daastoel <[email protected]> Date: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 9:00 AM Subject: [gang8] Michael on Norwegian TV - Februar 11, 2011- Aktuelt - NRK Nett-TV To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Cc: Aslak Sira Myhre <[email protected]>, ISLET-Verlag < [email protected]>, "Michael Hudson (MH)" <[email protected]>, Ursula Backhaus <[email protected]>
You will find the interview with Michael starting after 19 minutes, lasting 8+ minutes.
It was sent on primed time on the state national channel NRK2 (the serious documentary channel), in a workdays daily debate program that I record every day.
http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/
The meeting yesterday in the most popular debate house in Oslo, the House of Literature just behind the Royal Castle, drew a record 400 listeners, making it necessary to set up a video transferral to another hall in addition.
His co-debaters were good with serious arguments.
Arno __._,_.___ Reply to sender<[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Michael%20on%20Norwegian%20TV%20-%20Februar%2011%2C%202011-%20Aktuelt%20-%20NRK%20Nett-TV>| Reply to group<[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Michael%20on%20Norwegian%20TV%20-%20Februar%2011%2C%202011-%20Aktuelt%20-%20NRK%20Nett-TV>| Reply via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcWlmOGNpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBG1zZ0lkAzE1NTk0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNg--?act=reply&messageNum=15594>| Start a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJldDBsMXU1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNg--> Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/message/15594;_ylc=X3oDMTM2OWY4Nm1rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBG1zZ0lkAzE1NTk0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNgR0cGNJZAMxNTU5NA-->( 1) Recent Activity:
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Hi All ( bcc: Bernard Lietaer , Chris Cook , Karthik ) while looking forward to some of your further suggestions on the p2p list ( http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation ) some additional 5 cents notes - in relation to alternative finance, energy, norway's sovereign fund, and a potential research centre / investment scheme. I find a interesting synergy possible with other neighbors, such as, in this example, with iceland. See Smari's <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%C3%A1ri_McCarthy> interview of Bernard Lietaer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lietaer> : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQBHRiTpJxY Such interview underlines a very interesting potential on what I see as long term investments in icelandic energy infrastructure - hydroelectric, but also mostly geothermal energy - distribution of energy through submarine cables, or through storage in the form of hydrogen - potentially fueling a hydrogen economy in Scandinavia and across the world ? Although such approach would still be centralized, and not lead to a fully p2p approach, I hope it could prevent the collapse of complex societies dependent on high energy consumption. Using energy as a currency is also a interesting prospect set forward by some people we may know or be in touch with, such as Chris Cook, who proposed to directly trade with oil / energy guaranteed currencies http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5269 also see : http://p2pfoundation.net/Chris_Cook Possibly we could imagine currencies in kWh, including for hydrogen storage of geothermal energy. I also like recent developments in Iceland in which Smari is involved in or co-initiates, leading to interesting legal frameworks potentially offered by the region for becoming a communication and journalistic global hub. see : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Modern_Media_Initiative <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Modern_Media_Initiative>Just my 5 cents :) On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson < [email protected]> wrote:
I could imagine starting with a proposal for a "peer production research and development" centre - as a not for ( speculative ) profit , use value oriented research centre,
combined with heterodox economics ( including alternative vector spaces / alternative currencies / alternative resource allocation information systems ) as to channel such new development in a way that does not increase inflation on existing currencies.
I could imagine such research centre as a autonomous network of spaces, yet collaborating with some existing design and engineering clusters,
and/or universities - such as in Oslo : http://www.uio.no/english/ ; Trondheim : http://www.ntnu.edu/ ; ...
and in collaboration with other Nordic Countries via a proposal to some Nordic Council bodies , not for direct funding under the council, but as a deliberation approach to invite these countries, including Norway's Sovereign Fund, to diversify further in local peer production approaches, while maintaining strategic resources owned locally
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Council
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>wrote:
Thanks a lot Dante,
Dear Karthik, if you are still in Oslo, could you find out more about this?
Michel
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> Date: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 5:20 PM Subject: Hi Michel - setting up peer production investment scheme in Norway To: Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>
Hi Michel
I see a lot of potential in setting up an investment portfolio for peer production offered for Norway - for its long term local post-industrial development.
I could imagine several billion could be invested in such scheme, which takes into account alternative forms of economics then a speculative capitalist approach.
------------------
In Relation to Norway, and the 500 Billion Sovereign Fund built on oil wealth.
On Norwegian News, in English at around 20 minutes :
http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/
excerpts :
Investing "in your own economy".
"Direct investment in your resources" - and into your neighbors. ( such as Iceland )
"Its all about the means of production"
"The stock market are shrinking because people in the US and Europe have so much debt"
"There is no way of diversifying yourself out of risk if the environment itself is risky"
"China invests in what it needs for its economy - such as mines in Africa - "
"What kind of economy do we want Norway to look like to be a productive economy"
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Arno Mong Daastoel <[email protected]> Date: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 9:00 AM Subject: [gang8] Michael on Norwegian TV - Februar 11, 2011- Aktuelt - NRK Nett-TV To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Cc: Aslak Sira Myhre <[email protected]>, ISLET-Verlag < [email protected]>, "Michael Hudson (MH)" <[email protected]>, Ursula Backhaus <[email protected]>
You will find the interview with Michael starting after 19 minutes, lasting 8+ minutes.
It was sent on primed time on the state national channel NRK2 (the serious documentary channel), in a workdays daily debate program that I record every day.
http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/
The meeting yesterday in the most popular debate house in Oslo, the House of Literature just behind the Royal Castle, drew a record 400 listeners, making it necessary to set up a video transferral to another hall in addition.
His co-debaters were good with serious arguments.
Arno __._,_.___ Reply to sender<[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Michael%20on%20Norwegian%20TV%20-%20Februar%2011%2C%202011-%20Aktuelt%20-%20NRK%20Nett-TV>| Reply to group<[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Michael%20on%20Norwegian%20TV%20-%20Februar%2011%2C%202011-%20Aktuelt%20-%20NRK%20Nett-TV>| Reply via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcWlmOGNpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBG1zZ0lkAzE1NTk0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNg--?act=reply&messageNum=15594>| Start a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJldDBsMXU1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNg--> Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/message/15594;_ylc=X3oDMTM2OWY4Nm1rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBG1zZ0lkAzE1NTk0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNgR0cGNJZAMxNTU5NA-->( 1) Recent Activity:
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last reply to Michel following this thread : ------- Hi Michel for the moment *there is no specific project.* the interview of Michael Hudson<http://www.google.be/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=michael+hudson&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=> on norwegian prime time news ( starting @ minute 20' on http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/ ) makes me feel there is the potential to surf on such debate. A debate that could include alternative financial vectors / currencies , local use value production, p2p cooperative ownership, etc ?? Perhaps some well defined "research platform" business model already exists ? I remember there was an application to a grant for a p2pf research funding ? I also know Sam , Paul, and others are offering the approach of http://forwardfound.org/ ---------- further personal past context : I did not go to Norway yet. In 2009, thanks to David, I was invited at the "Kragerø Filosofen festival", where I could have discussed some of the ideas we discuss on p2pf lists. But at that time I needed to settle, after spending a lot of time on the road, and decided to stay in Brussels. Edgar Kampers <http://thebiggerpicture2009.org/speakers/edgar-kampers> was co-organizing, and there was space to discuss alternative economics and finance, governance, production... as the topic was "money" 2009 archive : http://www.paakanten.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=126&Ite... I told Chris Cook <http://p2pfoundation.net/Chris_Cook>, and , as far as I remember, he probably went to the Festival. Perhaps such future festival , if it chooses to discuss topics related to p2p, could be a interesting opening for discussing such topics in Norway. On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Dante,
I need to know more about this Norwegian project, before I can imagine what is really possible,
Michel
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi All ( bcc: Bernard Lietaer , Chris Cook , Karthik )
while looking forward to some of your further suggestions on the p2p list ( http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation )
some additional 5 cents notes - in relation to alternative finance, energy, norway's sovereign fund, and a potential research centre / investment scheme.
I find a interesting synergy possible with other neighbors, such as, in this example, with iceland.
See Smari's <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%C3%A1ri_McCarthy> interview of Bernard Lietaer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lietaer> :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQBHRiTpJxY
Such interview underlines a very interesting potential on what I see as long term investments in icelandic energy infrastructure - hydroelectric, but also mostly geothermal energy - distribution of energy through submarine cables, or through storage in the form of hydrogen - potentially fueling a hydrogen economy in Scandinavia and across the world ?
Although such approach would still be centralized, and not lead to a fully p2p approach, I hope it could prevent the collapse of complex societies dependent on high energy consumption.
Using energy as a currency is also a interesting prospect set forward by some people we may know or be in touch with, such as Chris Cook, who proposed to directly trade with oil / energy guaranteed currencies http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5269
also see : http://p2pfoundation.net/Chris_Cook
Possibly we could imagine currencies in kWh, including for hydrogen storage of geothermal energy.
I also like recent developments in Iceland in which Smari is involved in or co-initiates, leading to interesting legal frameworks potentially offered by the region for becoming a communication and journalistic global hub.
see : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Modern_Media_Initiative
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Modern_Media_Initiative>Just my 5 cents :)
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson < [email protected]> wrote:
I could imagine starting with a proposal for a "peer production research and development" centre - as a not for ( speculative ) profit , use value oriented research centre,
combined with heterodox economics ( including alternative vector spaces / alternative currencies / alternative resource allocation information systems ) as to channel such new development in a way that does not increase inflation on existing currencies.
I could imagine such research centre as a autonomous network of spaces, yet collaborating with some existing design and engineering clusters,
and/or universities - such as in Oslo : http://www.uio.no/english/ ; Trondheim : http://www.ntnu.edu/ ; ...
and in collaboration with other Nordic Countries via a proposal to some Nordic Council bodies , not for direct funding under the council, but as a deliberation approach to invite these countries, including Norway's Sovereign Fund, to diversify further in local peer production approaches, while maintaining strategic resources owned locally
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Council
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]
wrote:
Thanks a lot Dante,
Dear Karthik, if you are still in Oslo, could you find out more about this?
Michel
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> Date: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 5:20 PM Subject: Hi Michel - setting up peer production investment scheme in Norway To: Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>
Hi Michel
I see a lot of potential in setting up an investment portfolio for peer production offered for Norway - for its long term local post-industrial development.
I could imagine several billion could be invested in such scheme, which takes into account alternative forms of economics then a speculative capitalist approach.
------------------
In Relation to Norway, and the 500 Billion Sovereign Fund built on oil wealth.
On Norwegian News, in English at around 20 minutes :
http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/
excerpts :
Investing "in your own economy".
"Direct investment in your resources" - and into your neighbors. ( such as Iceland )
"Its all about the means of production"
"The stock market are shrinking because people in the US and Europe have so much debt"
"There is no way of diversifying yourself out of risk if the environment itself is risky"
"China invests in what it needs for its economy - such as mines in Africa - "
"What kind of economy do we want Norway to look like to be a productive economy"
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Arno Mong Daastoel <[email protected]> Date: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 9:00 AM Subject: [gang8] Michael on Norwegian TV - Februar 11, 2011- Aktuelt - NRK Nett-TV To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Cc: Aslak Sira Myhre <[email protected]>, ISLET-Verlag < [email protected]>, "Michael Hudson (MH)" <[email protected]>, Ursula Backhaus <[email protected]>
You will find the interview with Michael starting after 19 minutes, lasting 8+ minutes.
It was sent on primed time on the state national channel NRK2 (the serious documentary channel), in a workdays daily debate program that I record every day.
http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/
The meeting yesterday in the most popular debate house in Oslo, the House of Literature just behind the Royal Castle, drew a record 400 listeners, making it necessary to set up a video transferral to another hall in addition.
His co-debaters were good with serious arguments.
Arno __._,_.___ Reply to sender<[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Michael%20on%20Norwegian%20TV%20-%20Februar%2011%2C%202011-%20Aktuelt%20-%20NRK%20Nett-TV>| Reply to group<[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Michael%20on%20Norwegian%20TV%20-%20Februar%2011%2C%202011-%20Aktuelt%20-%20NRK%20Nett-TV>| Reply via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcWlmOGNpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBG1zZ0lkAzE1NTk0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNg--?act=reply&messageNum=15594>| Start a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJldDBsMXU1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNg--> Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/message/15594;_ylc=X3oDMTM2OWY4Nm1rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBG1zZ0lkAzE1NTk0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNgR0cGNJZAMxNTU5NA-->( 1) Recent Activity:
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thanks dante, Michael Hudson is indeed very interesting, Michel On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:04 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson < [email protected]> wrote:
last reply to Michel following this thread :
-------
Hi Michel
for the moment *there is no specific project.*
the interview of Michael Hudson<http://www.google.be/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=michael+hudson&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=> on norwegian prime time news ( starting @ minute 20' on http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/ )
makes me feel there is the potential to surf on such debate.
A debate that could include alternative financial vectors / currencies , local use value production, p2p cooperative ownership, etc ??
Perhaps some well defined "research platform" business model already exists ?
I remember there was an application to a grant for a p2pf research funding ?
I also know Sam , Paul, and others are offering the approach of http://forwardfound.org/
----------
further personal past context :
I did not go to Norway yet.
In 2009, thanks to David, I was invited at the "Kragerø Filosofen festival", where I could have discussed some of the ideas we discuss on p2pf lists.
But at that time I needed to settle, after spending a lot of time on the road, and decided to stay in Brussels.
Edgar Kampers <http://thebiggerpicture2009.org/speakers/edgar-kampers> was co-organizing, and there was space to discuss alternative economics and finance, governance, production...
as the topic was "money"
2009 archive :
http://www.paakanten.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=126&Ite...
I told Chris Cook <http://p2pfoundation.net/Chris_Cook>, and , as far as I remember, he probably went to the Festival.
Perhaps such future festival , if it chooses to discuss topics related to p2p, could be a interesting opening for discussing such topics in Norway.
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Dante,
I need to know more about this Norwegian project, before I can imagine what is really possible,
Michel
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson < [email protected]> wrote:
Hi All ( bcc: Bernard Lietaer , Chris Cook , Karthik )
while looking forward to some of your further suggestions on the p2p list ( http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation )
some additional 5 cents notes - in relation to alternative finance, energy, norway's sovereign fund, and a potential research centre / investment scheme.
I find a interesting synergy possible with other neighbors, such as, in this example, with iceland.
See Smari's <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%C3%A1ri_McCarthy> interview of Bernard Lietaer <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lietaer> :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQBHRiTpJxY
Such interview underlines a very interesting potential on what I see as long term investments in icelandic energy infrastructure - hydroelectric, but also mostly geothermal energy - distribution of energy through submarine cables, or through storage in the form of hydrogen - potentially fueling a hydrogen economy in Scandinavia and across the world ?
Although such approach would still be centralized, and not lead to a fully p2p approach, I hope it could prevent the collapse of complex societies dependent on high energy consumption.
Using energy as a currency is also a interesting prospect set forward by some people we may know or be in touch with, such as Chris Cook, who proposed to directly trade with oil / energy guaranteed currencies http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5269
also see : http://p2pfoundation.net/Chris_Cook
Possibly we could imagine currencies in kWh, including for hydrogen storage of geothermal energy.
I also like recent developments in Iceland in which Smari is involved in or co-initiates, leading to interesting legal frameworks potentially offered by the region for becoming a communication and journalistic global hub.
see : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Modern_Media_Initiative
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Modern_Media_Initiative>Just my 5 cents :)
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson < [email protected]> wrote:
I could imagine starting with a proposal for a "peer production research and development" centre - as a not for ( speculative ) profit , use value oriented research centre,
combined with heterodox economics ( including alternative vector spaces / alternative currencies / alternative resource allocation information systems ) as to channel such new development in a way that does not increase inflation on existing currencies.
I could imagine such research centre as a autonomous network of spaces, yet collaborating with some existing design and engineering clusters,
and/or universities - such as in Oslo : http://www.uio.no/english/ ; Trondheim : http://www.ntnu.edu/ ; ...
and in collaboration with other Nordic Countries via a proposal to some Nordic Council bodies , not for direct funding under the council, but as a deliberation approach to invite these countries, including Norway's Sovereign Fund, to diversify further in local peer production approaches, while maintaining strategic resources owned locally
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Council
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Michel Bauwens < [email protected]> wrote:
Thanks a lot Dante,
Dear Karthik, if you are still in Oslo, could you find out more about this?
Michel
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> Date: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 5:20 PM Subject: Hi Michel - setting up peer production investment scheme in Norway To: Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>
Hi Michel
I see a lot of potential in setting up an investment portfolio for peer production offered for Norway - for its long term local post-industrial development.
I could imagine several billion could be invested in such scheme, which takes into account alternative forms of economics then a speculative capitalist approach.
------------------
In Relation to Norway, and the 500 Billion Sovereign Fund built on oil wealth.
On Norwegian News, in English at around 20 minutes :
http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/
excerpts :
Investing "in your own economy".
"Direct investment in your resources" - and into your neighbors. ( such as Iceland )
"Its all about the means of production"
"The stock market are shrinking because people in the US and Europe have so much debt"
"There is no way of diversifying yourself out of risk if the environment itself is risky"
"China invests in what it needs for its economy - such as mines in Africa - "
"What kind of economy do we want Norway to look like to be a productive economy"
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Arno Mong Daastoel <[email protected]> Date: Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 9:00 AM Subject: [gang8] Michael on Norwegian TV - Februar 11, 2011- Aktuelt - NRK Nett-TV To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Cc: Aslak Sira Myhre <[email protected]>, ISLET-Verlag < [email protected]>, "Michael Hudson (MH)" <[email protected]>, Ursula Backhaus <[email protected]>
You will find the interview with Michael starting after 19 minutes, lasting 8+ minutes.
It was sent on primed time on the state national channel NRK2 (the serious documentary channel), in a workdays daily debate program that I record every day.
http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/713548/
The meeting yesterday in the most popular debate house in Oslo, the House of Literature just behind the Royal Castle, drew a record 400 listeners, making it necessary to set up a video transferral to another hall in addition.
His co-debaters were good with serious arguments.
Arno __._,_.___ Reply to sender<[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Michael%20on%20Norwegian%20TV%20-%20Februar%2011%2C%202011-%20Aktuelt%20-%20NRK%20Nett-TV>| Reply to group<[email protected]?subject=Re%3A%20Michael%20on%20Norwegian%20TV%20-%20Februar%2011%2C%202011-%20Aktuelt%20-%20NRK%20Nett-TV>| Reply via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcWlmOGNpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBG1zZ0lkAzE1NTk0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNg--?act=reply&messageNum=15594>| Start a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJldDBsMXU1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNg--> Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gang8/message/15594;_ylc=X3oDMTM2OWY4Nm1rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMTA1NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDAxOTkwBG1zZ0lkAzE1NTk0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI5ODM2MTYxNgR0cGNJZAMxNTU5NA-->( 1) Recent Activity:
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participants (2)
-
Dante-Gabryell Monson -
Michel Bauwens