Hello Peers-I've been following Michael Hudson for a long time. Libertarian economic ideas are shunned by mainstream candidates & progressives won't listen with open minds. If you like Hudson & Yves Smith- maybe P2P could listen more carefully to details put forth by Ron Paul, Ralph Nader, Dennis Kucinich. Not the panacea you imagine, but much closer to freedom then the criminals in charge now. Hope you've read "Reckless Endangerment" and learned how conniving businessmen used affordable housing and were protected by an aura of political correctness-to build the Fannie/Freddie scheme. Often regulatory capture is used by the Left to promote equality but the $$$ ends up in the pockets of the liars-posing as liberals. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 5:46 AM To: P2P Foundation mailing list ; toeslist.yahoogroups.com Subject: [P2P-F] Michael Hudson video ***** In this Real New Network interview Michael Hudson has put forth the best reasoning that I've heard favoring state banking. It is to treat the entire banking sector as a public utility function only. This brings the MMT and FF principles for fiscal policy reform into prominence by having the rest of the necessary reform agenda. Reiteration, a major part of the problem is the banking culture itself. Shifting that sector primarily toward functioning as a regulated, public utility. Eliminating the fractional reserve franchise is another line on a reform agenda. Re-establishing the debt free supply of currency is another agenda line. Countercyclical intervention to create jobs is another slice of functional finance fiscal policies. Repairing, building, and expanding public infrastructure is another entry. Tadit http://ampedstatus.org/michael-hudson-on-occupywallstreet-wall-street-is-a-c... _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

big differences between ron paul and ralph nader/ kucinich on the other hand, but glad to hear they have found common ground that brings us forward ... together with steven keen, michael hudson is probably my favourite economist, I would characterise the latter as a left libertarian, and he has certainly nothing to do with anarcho-capitalism; I think he calls himself a 'Georgist economist' .. I would think people like him are for a progressive smallholder-based market system, with very strong egalitarian impuses ... Please don't see this as a mere exercise in labelling, worldviews and perspectives are important, to find common ground it also helps when you know where the other is coming from Kevin, you probably know more about this? Martin, is a public utility necessarily centralized (or undemocratic ), I don't think so; of course, even if it were, we should not automatically fetishize distributed structures ... it's a question of balance or 'subsidiarity' ... Michel On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Natalie Golovin <[email protected]> wrote:

Hello Peers-I've been following Michael Hudson for a long time. Libertarian economic ideas are shunned by mainstream candidates & progressives won't listen with open minds. If you like Hudson & Yves Smith- maybe P2P could listen more carefully to details put forth by Ron Paul, Ralph Nader, Dennis Kucinich. Not the panacea you imagine, but much closer to freedom then the criminals in charge now. Hope you've read "Reckless Endangerment" and learned how conniving businessmen used affordable housing and were protected by an aura of political correctness-to build the Fannie/Freddie scheme. Often regulatory capture is used by the Left to promote equality but the $$$ ends up in the pockets of the liars-posing as liberals.

-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 5:46 AM To: P2P Foundation mailing list ; toeslist.yahoogroups.com Subject: [P2P-F] Michael Hudson video *****

In this Real New Network interview Michael Hudson has put forth the best reasoning that I've heard favoring state banking. It is to treat the entire banking sector as a public utility function only. This brings the MMT and FF principles for fiscal policy reform into prominence by having the rest of the necessary reform agenda. Reiteration, a major part of the problem is the banking culture itself. Shifting that sector primarily toward functioning as a regulated, public utility. Eliminating the fractional reserve franchise is another line on a reform agenda. Re-establishing the debt free supply of currency is another agenda line. Countercyclical intervention to create jobs is another slice of functional finance fiscal policies. Repairing, building, and expanding public infrastructure is another entry.

Tadit

http://ampedstatus.org/michael-hudson-on-occupywallstreet-wall-street-is-a-c...

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you are right that the general assumption is for 'public' to be centralized (unless you mean they also include my qualifications?), but I think we can challenge that assumption, and consider the 'public' to be quite diverse in its possible formats, Michel On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 2:44 AM, jmp <[email protected]> wrote:

On 12/10/11 19:54, Michel Bauwens wrote:

...

Martin, is a public utility necessarily centralized (or undemocratic ), I don't think so; of course, even if it were, we should not automatically fetishize distributed structures ... it's a question of balance or 'subsidiarity' ...

For sure, but the term "public" normally means that, no?

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I was not aware of that, as they don't seem to use the concept in any overt way in the material I have seen, Michel On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 5:30 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:

Michael Hudson and Steven Keen (student of Hyman Minsky as was Randall Wray) are both MMT economists. Hudson also includes the anti-imperial slice and Georgist economics which covers local taxation issues. If you listen carefully to the video he re-frames the state banking concept into the larger agenda of MMT/FF reforms. In this particular interview he goes deeper into the forensic aspect of Wall Street Fraud. The top expert in the US on financial sector crime is William Black who is also at UMKC. Hudson is the distinguished professor of economics for the UMKC Econ. Department which is the strongest academic department in the world for MMT/FF economics.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 14:54:26 -0400, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:

...

big differences between ron paul and ralph nader/ kucinich on the other hand, but glad to hear they have found common ground that brings us forward ...

together with steven keen, michael hudson is probably my favourite economist,

I would characterise the latter as a left libertarian, and he has certainly nothing to do with anarcho-capitalism; I think he calls himself a 'Georgist economist' .. I would think people like him are for a progressive smallholder-based market system, with very strong egalitarian impuses ...

Please don't see this as a mere exercise in labelling, worldviews and perspectives are important, to find common ground it also helps when you know where the other is coming from

Kevin, you probably know more about this?

Martin, is a public utility necessarily centralized (or undemocratic ), I don't think so; of course, even if it were, we should not automatically fetishize distributed structures ... it's a question of balance or 'subsidiarity' ...

Michel

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Natalie Golovin <[email protected]> wrote:

...

Hello Peers-I've been following Michael Hudson for a long time. Libertarian economic ideas are shunned by mainstream candidates & progressives won't listen with open minds. If you like Hudson & Yves Smith- maybe P2P could listen more carefully to details put forth by Ron Paul, Ralph Nader, Dennis Kucinich. Not the panacea you imagine, but much closer to freedom then the criminals in charge now. Hope you've read "Reckless Endangerment" and learned how conniving businessmen used affordable housing and were protected by an aura of political correctness-to build the Fannie/Freddie scheme. Often regulatory capture is used by the Left to promote equality but the $$$ ends up in the pockets of the liars-posing as liberals.

-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 5:46 AM To: P2P Foundation mailing list ; toeslist.yahoogroups.com Subject: [P2P-F] Michael Hudson video *****

In this Real New Network interview Michael Hudson has put forth the best reasoning that I've heard favoring state banking. It is to treat the entire banking sector as a public utility function only. This brings the MMT and FF principles for fiscal policy reform into prominence by having the rest of the necessary reform agenda. Reiteration, a major part of the problem is the banking culture itself. Shifting that sector primarily toward functioning as a regulated, public utility. Eliminating the fractional reserve franchise is another line on a reform agenda. Re-establishing the debt free supply of currency is another agenda line. Countercyclical intervention to create jobs is another slice of functional finance fiscal policies. Repairing, building, and expanding public infrastructure is another entry.

Tadit

http://ampedstatus.org/michael-hudson-on-occupywallstreet-wall-street-is-a-c...

...

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That’s what I said..Corrupt, conniving businessmen use liberal causes like affordable housing and turn it to their own ends. James A Johnson did that exact thing re Fannie-Freddie. As the current bottom up revolution develops-there will be squabbling, discontent and malfactors waiting in the wings. My mail was about realizing that there are ethical voices out there that your “group” has not recognized and have much to contribute. It really comes down to the individual morality of the leaders or representatives. I’m convinced a Monarchy can have more freedom than a Democracy-if the Monarch uses his power beneficently. There are selfish, unscrupulously people everywhere-even in the homes of those supporting the “Commons.” From: Michel Bauwens Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:02 PM To: P2P Foundation mailing list Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Michael Hudson video ***** and just a remark, for several decades, we had very successful and relatively uncorrupt public housing in Europe, which helped millions of working class people to a house, either through cheap rent or cheap mortgages .. in fact, the real estate bubbles started at pretty much the same time they stopped doing this, and housing shortages became permanent after this ... just to mention the example of my own family, in a country which still had child labourers dying in their teens until the fifties, 'government policies' insured free education, free healthcare, cheap quality housing, allowing a child of two orphan working class parents to go to the university ... all of this was slowly dismantled, but not completely, in the 80's with the neoliberal counterrevolution ... I would not be surprised if U.S. welfare institutions were gutted and defunded, then blamed for their failures because they were 'government' ... I'm not saying this as an absolute fan of 'government', just as a counterpoint to the right-libertarian myth that governments are always bad and corporations always good (I'm slightly exagerating but the essence is really that) Natalie, most often you will see that those pocketing the $$$ are not 'liberals' but actually archconservatives using libertarian justifications for their looting ... Michel On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Natalie Golovin <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Peers-I've been following Michael Hudson for a long time. Libertarian economic ideas are shunned by mainstream candidates & progressives won't listen with open minds. If you like Hudson & Yves Smith- maybe P2P could listen more carefully to details put forth by Ron Paul, Ralph Nader, Dennis Kucinich. Not the panacea you imagine, but much closer to freedom then the criminals in charge now. Hope you've read "Reckless Endangerment" and learned how conniving businessmen used affordable housing and were protected by an aura of political correctness-to build the Fannie/Freddie scheme. Often regulatory capture is used by the Left to promote equality but the $$$ ends up in the pockets of the liars-posing as liberals. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 5:46 AM To: P2P Foundation mailing list ; toeslist.yahoogroups.com Subject: [P2P-F] Michael Hudson video ***** In this Real New Network interview Michael Hudson has put forth the best reasoning that I've heard favoring state banking. It is to treat the entire banking sector as a public utility function only. This brings the MMT and FF principles for fiscal policy reform into prominence by having the rest of the necessary reform agenda. Reiteration, a major part of the problem is the banking culture itself. Shifting that sector primarily toward functioning as a regulated, public utility. Eliminating the fractional reserve franchise is another line on a reform agenda. Re-establishing the debt free supply of currency is another agenda line. Countercyclical intervention to create jobs is another slice of functional finance fiscal policies. Repairing, building, and expanding public infrastructure is another entry. Tadit http://ampedstatus.org/michael-hudson-on-occupywallstreet-wall-street-is-a-c... _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

We all know this-I support OWS-I donated to OWS. I want it to remain open to diverse opinions regarding the needed restructuring. Personally, I support Ron Paul on ending the FED as a very significant first step in structural reform. I’m in CA and I have heard from people in LA that the Occupy group there is attempting to ramrod their issues/views and push them throughout the state. I’m fighting that tactic & hope P2P will be vigilant as well as exuberant. From: Michel Bauwens Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM To: P2P Foundation mailing list Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Michael Hudson video ***** Hi Natalie, you are right that there are corrupt people everywhere, but structural aspects are very important, in a monarchy, you can't challenge the monarch, in a democracy, you can, at least in theory the challenge of osw is the awareness that this 'democracy' is no longer functioning and has been captured by private business interests, one could argue that the current state form has been nearly completely captured, at least and especially in the US, by such predatory factions (of course, the EU is giving the same strong signs of this as well) no human system is beyond corruption, and the most democratic systems can slide intro their contrary, Michel On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 6:29 AM, Natalie Golovin <[email protected]> wrote: That’s what I said..Corrupt, conniving businessmen use liberal causes like affordable housing and turn it to their own ends. James A Johnson did that exact thing re Fannie-Freddie. As the current bottom up revolution develops-there will be squabbling, discontent and malfactors waiting in the wings. My mail was about realizing that there are ethical voices out there that your “group” has not recognized and have much to contribute. It really comes down to the individual morality of the leaders or representatives. I’m convinced a Monarchy can have more freedom than a Democracy-if the Monarch uses his power beneficently. There are selfish, unscrupulously people everywhere-even in the homes of those supporting the “Commons.” From: Michel Bauwens Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:02 PM To: P2P Foundation mailing list Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Michael Hudson video ***** and just a remark, for several decades, we had very successful and relatively uncorrupt public housing in Europe, which helped millions of working class people to a house, either through cheap rent or cheap mortgages .. in fact, the real estate bubbles started at pretty much the same time they stopped doing this, and housing shortages became permanent after this ... just to mention the example of my own family, in a country which still had child labourers dying in their teens until the fifties, 'government policies' insured free education, free healthcare, cheap quality housing, allowing a child of two orphan working class parents to go to the university ... all of this was slowly dismantled, but not completely, in the 80's with the neoliberal counterrevolution ... I would not be surprised if U.S. welfare institutions were gutted and defunded, then blamed for their failures because they were 'government' ... I'm not saying this as an absolute fan of 'government', just as a counterpoint to the right-libertarian myth that governments are always bad and corporations always good (I'm slightly exagerating but the essence is really that) Natalie, most often you will see that those pocketing the $$$ are not 'liberals' but actually archconservatives using libertarian justifications for their looting ... Michel On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Natalie Golovin <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Peers-I've been following Michael Hudson for a long time. Libertarian economic ideas are shunned by mainstream candidates & progressives won't listen with open minds. If you like Hudson & Yves Smith- maybe P2P could listen more carefully to details put forth by Ron Paul, Ralph Nader, Dennis Kucinich. Not the panacea you imagine, but much closer to freedom then the criminals in charge now. Hope you've read "Reckless Endangerment" and learned how conniving businessmen used affordable housing and were protected by an aura of political correctness-to build the Fannie/Freddie scheme. Often regulatory capture is used by the Left to promote equality but the $$$ ends up in the pockets of the liars-posing as liberals. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 5:46 AM To: P2P Foundation mailing list ; toeslist.yahoogroups.com Subject: [P2P-F] Michael Hudson video ***** In this Real New Network interview Michael Hudson has put forth the best reasoning that I've heard favoring state banking. It is to treat the entire banking sector as a public utility function only. This brings the MMT and FF principles for fiscal policy reform into prominence by having the rest of the necessary reform agenda. Reiteration, a major part of the problem is the banking culture itself. Shifting that sector primarily toward functioning as a regulated, public utility. Eliminating the fractional reserve franchise is another line on a reform agenda. Re-establishing the debt free supply of currency is another agenda line. Countercyclical intervention to create jobs is another slice of functional finance fiscal policies. Repairing, building, and expanding public infrastructure is another entry. Tadit http://ampedstatus.org/michael-hudson-on-occupywallstreet-wall-street-is-a-c... _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation