Re: [P2P-F] does google censor?
we definitely need documented proof on this, and then publicise it!! On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Sepp Hasslberger <[email protected]> wrote:
I have no doubt that it IS true that Google is censoring.
They downgrade selected content that offends their major customers (both advertisers and government agencies) or puts them in a bad light.
I've had some experience of this myself when Google re-did its algorythms and my major articles critical of Pfizer's cholesterol lowering drug Lipitor which had been on the first page of Google results for some years, all of a sudden were way down, nowhere to be found on a search, and instead the sites that sell the drug and that sing its praises were up where my critical articles had been.
To me, it's a fact that Google censors its results, not only news but also normal search. It is not widely known, but it should be. Robin Good, who hosts my health site, at the time did not believe Google could ever do such a thing. I think he may be slowly changing his mind. If he did, and got on that story, we might have an outlet to a larger public.
Sepp
*"The individual is supreme and finds the way through intuition"*
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/ http://www.laleva.org http://blog.hasslberger.com/ http://www.facebook.com/hasslberger http://twitter.com/healthsupreme
.
On Oct 17, 2011, at 5:13 PM, Michel Bauwens wrote:
if true, then it is very worrying ...
http://ampedstatus.org/shocking-censorship-at-google-news-and-the-future-of-...
http://ampedstatus.org/shocking-censorship-at-google-news-and-the-future-of-...
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worse, perhaps, although maybe less sensational than censoring is the self-censoring that Google facilitates through its me-me-me algorithms where what you find is what you were looking for. To paraphrase Kevin, if I always look for a hammer, then Google will show me hammers. I will never know of pliers. I will see what I saw, what I want to see according to my past, -- the future, thus, recedes and we are stuck in a hamster's wheel wall-papered with ads. Lowest individual denominator, perfect neoliberal subjects emerge in cyberspace - God and Coke forbid we associated with "the other": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coke_Zero_Facial_Profiler On 19/10/11 01:37, Michel Bauwens wrote:
we definitely need documented proof on this, and then publicise it!!
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Sepp Hasslberger<[email protected]> wrote:
I have no doubt that it IS true that Google is censoring.
They downgrade selected content that offends their major customers (both advertisers and government agencies) or puts them in a bad light.
I've had some experience of this myself when Google re-did its algorythms and my major articles critical of Pfizer's cholesterol lowering drug Lipitor which had been on the first page of Google results for some years, all of a sudden were way down, nowhere to be found on a search, and instead the sites that sell the drug and that sing its praises were up where my critical articles had been.
To me, it's a fact that Google censors its results, not only news but also normal search. It is not widely known, but it should be. Robin Good, who hosts my health site, at the time did not believe Google could ever do such a thing. I think he may be slowly changing his mind. If he did, and got on that story, we might have an outlet to a larger public.
Sepp
*"The individual is supreme and finds the way through intuition"*
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/ http://www.laleva.org http://blog.hasslberger.com/ http://www.facebook.com/hasslberger http://twitter.com/healthsupreme
.
On Oct 17, 2011, at 5:13 PM, Michel Bauwens wrote:
if true, then it is very worrying ...
http://ampedstatus.org/shocking-censorship-at-google-news-and-the-future-of-...
http://ampedstatus.org/shocking-censorship-at-google-news-and-the-future-of-...
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
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-- NOT sent from a flippin' "smart"phone - 'cause I like birds...
Yes Michel! Hello Sepp. I am waiting for such documentation from Sepp! I think that since he has such a tangible track record, he should have been able to collect, photograph and record the details of this beyond what I have seen so far. (I am missing the original email to which you have been replying with this). I think Sepp is misrepresenting my take on Google as I have publicly expressed. Sepp's complaints about Google date back 3-4 years, and while they could have been Google determined, he really had no proof at the time nor desire to look deeper into this. His was a "feeling" corroborated by some data, but as I did show him, there were also alternative reasons for why that was happening. Sepp decided to discard these other possible reasons affecting rankings and maintained a position that Google was willfully and very consciously doing this. As I have learned from Sepp not to take a strong stand, let alone attack, something or someone until I have full proof and understanding of the issues at work, and being him a partial entity in this discourse, (since it was his personal site had lost traffic and visibility), I did not see at the time overwhelming proof that this was the case. As I don't like Google myself, I really had no benefit in contrasting Sepp but only a desire for more coherency from him, and the desire that he'd look at other issues besides the ones he thought to be the cause of his own problems. I am therefore quite open in supporting the publication of data that support demonstrating that Google manipulates search engine results, if anyone has such data available. On this front, I have taken also a few tangible steps, by not only writing about the larger issues that Google may be playing with and which affect us in much bigger ways, but also by continuously highlighting and sharing of all the key stories that are shining light on this potential Google controversy. You and Sepp may want to take a peek at this channel and see the content being published there: http://www.scoop.it/t/google-farmer-panda-update Give me the data and I will make good use of it. Robin On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:37 AM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>wrote:
we definitely need documented proof on this, and then publicise it!!
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Sepp Hasslberger <[email protected]>wrote:
I have no doubt that it IS true that Google is censoring.
They downgrade selected content that offends their major customers (both advertisers and government agencies) or puts them in a bad light.
I've had some experience of this myself when Google re-did its algorythms and my major articles critical of Pfizer's cholesterol lowering drug Lipitor which had been on the first page of Google results for some years, all of a sudden were way down, nowhere to be found on a search, and instead the sites that sell the drug and that sing its praises were up where my critical articles had been.
To me, it's a fact that Google censors its results, not only news but also normal search. It is not widely known, but it should be. Robin Good, who hosts my health site, at the time did not believe Google could ever do such a thing. I think he may be slowly changing his mind. If he did, and got on that story, we might have an outlet to a larger public.
Sepp
*"The individual is supreme and finds the way through intuition"*
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/ http://www.laleva.org http://blog.hasslberger.com/ http://www.facebook.com/hasslberger http://twitter.com/healthsupreme
.
On Oct 17, 2011, at 5:13 PM, Michel Bauwens wrote:
if true, then it is very worrying ...
http://ampedstatus.org/shocking-censorship-at-google-news-and-the-future-of-...
http://ampedstatus.org/shocking-censorship-at-google-news-and-the-future-of-...
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
thanks Robin, apart from that one article, I also have yet to see convincing proof, Michel On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Robin Good <[email protected]>wrote:
Yes Michel! Hello Sepp.
I am waiting for such documentation from Sepp!
I think that since he has such a tangible track record, he should have been able to collect, photograph and record the details of this beyond what I have seen so far. (I am missing the original email to which you have been replying with this).
I think Sepp is misrepresenting my take on Google as I have publicly expressed.
Sepp's complaints about Google date back 3-4 years, and while they could have been Google determined, he really had no proof at the time nor desire to look deeper into this. His was a "feeling" corroborated by some data, but as I did show him, there were also alternative reasons for why that was happening. Sepp decided to discard these other possible reasons affecting rankings and maintained a position that Google was willfully and very consciously doing this.
As I have learned from Sepp not to take a strong stand, let alone attack, something or someone until I have full proof and understanding of the issues at work, and being him a partial entity in this discourse, (since it was his personal site had lost traffic and visibility), I did not see at the time overwhelming proof that this was the case.
As I don't like Google myself, I really had no benefit in contrasting Sepp but only a desire for more coherency from him, and the desire that he'd look at other issues besides the ones he thought to be the cause of his own problems.
I am therefore quite open in supporting the publication of data that support demonstrating that Google manipulates search engine results, if anyone has such data available.
On this front, I have taken also a few tangible steps, by not only writing about the larger issues that Google may be playing with and which affect us in much bigger ways, but also by continuously highlighting and sharing of all the key stories that are shining light on this potential Google controversy.
You and Sepp may want to take a peek at this channel and see the content being published there: http://www.scoop.it/t/google-farmer-panda-update
Give me the data and I will make good use of it.
Robin
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:37 AM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>wrote:
we definitely need documented proof on this, and then publicise it!!
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Sepp Hasslberger <[email protected]>wrote:
I have no doubt that it IS true that Google is censoring.
They downgrade selected content that offends their major customers (both advertisers and government agencies) or puts them in a bad light.
I've had some experience of this myself when Google re-did its algorythms and my major articles critical of Pfizer's cholesterol lowering drug Lipitor which had been on the first page of Google results for some years, all of a sudden were way down, nowhere to be found on a search, and instead the sites that sell the drug and that sing its praises were up where my critical articles had been.
To me, it's a fact that Google censors its results, not only news but also normal search. It is not widely known, but it should be. Robin Good, who hosts my health site, at the time did not believe Google could ever do such a thing. I think he may be slowly changing his mind. If he did, and got on that story, we might have an outlet to a larger public.
Sepp
*"The individual is supreme and finds the way through intuition"*
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/ http://www.laleva.org http://blog.hasslberger.com/ http://www.facebook.com/hasslberger http://twitter.com/healthsupreme
.
On Oct 17, 2011, at 5:13 PM, Michel Bauwens wrote:
if true, then it is very worrying ...
http://ampedstatus.org/shocking-censorship-at-google-news-and-the-future-of-...
http://ampedstatus.org/shocking-censorship-at-google-news-and-the-future-of-...
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
participants (3)
-
Michel Bauwens -
mp -
Robin Good