hi michel
this is my commentary below, and I've done a little collation
there is a place for spontaneous, self-organizing, bottom-up organizing, and these occupations are a space for democracy, something that most people really never experience (voting is very different to consensus or participation-based democracy)
the Adam Curtis documentaries, and much of the critique here in the US, has been of the "what is the single demand", or "they are so disorganized" which is confusing the public relations media campaign with the democratic assembly.. actually, my own experience of these types of events has its been extremely efficient, far more efficient than government or large corporate technocracies ... however, I do agree with Curtis, after the mobilization, the assembly, there needs to be a kind of organization that sustains and continues once the passions have dissipated and its back to the hard slog of routine day-to-day work, activism etc
as to the self-sustaining peer-to-peer production, I agree with Michel, its nearly always being subsidized by state-capitalism, and is almost never internally self-supporting. There is a proposal in the Drupal community for a Drupal worker cooperative, also we discussed it really briefly with Prof Fred Freundlich at Mondragon University, i.e. New Economy worker coops, i.e. why are open source projects only ever corporation sponsored communities ?
--
Nicholas Roberts
US 510-684-8264
http://Permaculture.TV
http://permaculture.coop
* <in fact all peer production projects *are* self-sustaining. That
is part of their positive feedback cycle. Probably you are talking of
something else.>
Peer production projects can be collectively sustainable by relying on a
continuous stream on voluntary contributions, but they do presently not
sustain their members, who are usually paid by for-profit companies or as
freelancers on a marketplace ... i.e. the commons is not independently
sustainable for its members; this is why I propose that commoners/peer
producers create their own structures for a more autonomous cycle of
reproduction.
hi nicolas, perhaps you could embed this with some commentary of yours?
you will like it: http://www.vimeo.com/30078496
From: Nicholas Roberts <nicholas@themediasociety.org>
there is plenty of nihilist Leftist critique out there also
especially from the dinosaur vertical Marxists who have a big problem with
the anarchic inspired bottom up processes common to these
anti-capialist/alter-globalization movements
in Europe there is a lot more big tent solidarity then on display in the
US...
too many old Marxists, who should just shut up and send food parcels,
instead whinge about discipline and have created a mini industry critiquing
the publications of the movements
the old, crusty, seedy Marxists, always say, "There is No Left in the USA".
Now its obviously not true, they say "There is no Real, Rigorous,
Dialectically Sophisticated, Disciplined Left in the USA"
Occupying Occupy Together
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Nicholas Roberts
via<http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ctx=mail&answer=1311182>
gmail.com to lbo-talk
show details 12:29 PM (25 minutes ago)
can I just make a general swing at the keyboard intellectuals.
get of your arses and get down the places where people are gathering and get
involved in the process
its real easy to sit at home and read the amatuer, naive, often foolish
media that comes out of these media events and spectacles
even easier to type-up scathing nihilist critiques about the failure of the
Left, the faults of the young, the weakness of the institutions etc etc etc
etc etc
there is plenty of material, and its been done, too much
now is a time, to actually do something, and its time to be an organic
intellectual and participate in the messy, smelly,
noisy, uncomfortable realities of these kinds of democratic actions
soon enough it will dissipate, and you can go back to eating the shit
sandwhich of Amercian life
but today, and for the next few days, there is something happening worth
participating in
take your intellect, your knowledge, your experience and GO HELP
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Fw: Cheap "Jibe" at Protestors.... (robert searle)
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