I prefer it too-preference isn’t an option. We can’t vote for the reality
we choose. I think the best/quickest road to that end is develop
Interesting
discussion.
In my view, a "mad max" distopia is present in the form of massive
inequality,
and a world where people have guns ( to protect themselves in such a world
of inequality ? )
I personally prefer a world without guns, and without inequality ( to start
with, via the right of a unconditional basic income measured in use value, not
money ) .
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 1:58 AM, Natalie Golovin
<10natalie@cox.net>
wrote:
Thank you Devin. While I appreciate Kevin’s sincerity-I see him in an
alternate universe. If it came to fruition, I think the unintended
consequences would be a “Mad Max” world of gang violence as opinions wavered
on the legitimacy of Big D or little d rights/privileges depending on the
location &moment- or govt imposed tyranny. Nation States exist, and they
have borders that are much more than mathematical crosshairs on the globe. You
can’t throw away thousands of years of civilizations’ attempt to codify
property and human rights & obligations. The best we can do is
encourage/support individuals to be more responsible citizens (of their
respective nations)which includes reining in the corrupt
govt/corporatist/military collusion that restrains all our progress.
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Libertarians
Just some quick thoughts:
Michel - I'd imagine -
would rather the government have all the guns and trust that they'll use them
to enforce equality than to have faith in the people and their capacity to
organize.
If you have communautarian feelings then express them through
actions - not taxes.
Ron Paul finds the federal government an
unacceptable entity to force people to use their private property in a
particular way. I might disagree with the extent to which he applies his
philosophy but I respect it enough not to demonize it.
Every
nation has a unique history and identity. I think we should encourage
political differentiation within the framework of increasing people's access
to technologies that enable them to escape coercion by becoming more self
sufficient.
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Michel Bauwens
<michel@p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
I think that this is the heart of the matter and an
obvious difference between 'left' and 'right' approaches'
it's
really about how far you extend the circle of care .. for right-minded
people it's nearly always about 'just for us' and they can have deep
communautarian feelings (except probably for committed anarcho-capitalists
who only believe in individual contracting and full commodification of all
things), by contrast the left wants to extend it. ron paul finds it
acceptable to refuse entry to black people on the basis of property rights,
something no person on the left could tolerate ... natalie explicetely
rejects the quest for equality even thought the revolt against inequality is
at the heart of this movement .. but we can find commonality around freedom
..
though of course, freedom without equality is a chimera, as you need a
gun to protect you from your neighbour ...
and the greatest the differential, the greater number of guns needed
(now nearly a quarter of the workforce ?)
Michel
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:05 AM, Apostolis
Xekoukoulot cakis
<xekoukou@gmail.com> wrote:
That is what a conservative libertarian
would say. ''Protect the liberty of a certain group of people, for example
the american people. This is how the greek athenian democrarcry worked as
well. It wars a democracy for menr. But if we start thinking about liberty
to a set of people we end up with the conclusion that everyone is a
libertarian (take as a set only yourself ). That would make the use of the
word libertarian unnecessary (as we all are libertarians). Since the word
is used to differentiate between people, we end up through Reductio ad absurdum that your defintion of
libertarian is wrong.
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