On 2 September 2014 11:29, Örsan Şenalp <orsan1234@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bob I feel this exchange between you and Michel has a great potential.
> In addition to role of commons cooperatives, with revival of
> cooperativism, as you both agree, cooperative-Ursula K. Leguin's kind
> of unionism has to be the part of the same revival to take labour our
> of capital. I guess it is difficult to envisage how would this happen.
> In my opinion this should unify several ideas, to be linked to new
> cooperativism, floss/p2p/commons culture and communities, and new
> emancipatory unionism. embedded in multi level class struggles and
> confrontations with the state apparatus as well. so we were working on
> this 'how', and i think, as Michel agrees, creation of open or p2p
> value networks has to have a key position. That is why I was trying to
> figure out how to think and link GNUnion, saysus, p2p foundation,
> networked labour... so on to your work with
> http://mikorizal.org/software.html and sensorica. I think the software
> you are creating can be very useful for scaling up what Michel and
> comrades from Spain calls phyles, but as well as solidarity economies.
> if people can see where and what is needed, how much, what ways to do
> the open/p2p exchange -trade hacking- it would be an amazing
> contribution for all local nodes involved. local applications for food
> banks, hacker spaces, squatters, makers... this is a base tool for a
> parallel economy beyond the state. I wonder for instance if it is
> feasible to test it with CIC in Spain?  any way if you like too would
> be great to exchange and talk about this. for GNUnino and Saysus idea
> it can be very useful to bring this value network to those labour
> struggling in capital's yoke.. o.
>
> On 14 August 2014 12:43, Michel Bauwens <michel@p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 10:38 PM, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I also think the P2P Foundation is a great resource, and am working
>>> mostly with peer producers and their livelyhood organizations myself
>>> right now. But I don't think that is the only part of the rising
>>> forces emerging from the current situation. If, for example, any
>>> organizations in Detroit or Jackson asked us to work with them, we
>>> would be there as fast as we could pedal.
>>
>>
>> Thanks Bob, I would refer to the above in my reply.
>>
>> and my answer is this:
>>
>> * current peer production is not a full mode of production, as it cannot
>> sustain its own livelihoods and self-reproduction
>>
>> * but the revival of mere cooperativism, however genuine the motivation in
>> the beginning, will lead to the same process of adaptation as in the past,
>>
>> this is why what is needed  is a convergence of both model, i.e. peer
>> producers starting to create their own vehicles; and cooperatives starting
>> to generate commons
>>
>> as I have argued it here at
>>
>> what is needed between the accumulation of the commons and the accumulation
>> of capital, is exactly cooperative accumulation,
>> http://p2pfoundation.net/From_the_Communism_of_Capital_to_a_Capital_for_the_Commons
>>
>> But, if we want to avoid cooperative competition as a mere part of
>> capitalism, we need commons -producing cooperatives , as outlined here:
>> http://p2pfoundation.net/Why_We_Need_a_New_Kind_of_Open_Cooperativism_for_the_P2P_Age
>>
>> Part of this strategy is to move from an exclusive focus on immaterial
>> commons coupled with cooperative ownership,to a concern towards
>> commons-oriented forms of ownership in the material economy
>>
>>
>> --
>> Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record
>> of previous communication, proposals, etc ..
>>
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>
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