reply to bob haugen on the difference between sensorica and the p2p-f approach


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Michel Bauwens <michel@p2pfoundation.net>
Date: Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: Social charters for material production [was: FLOK >< Cybersyn}


thanks Bob, 

let me go straight to how I see the difference with Sensorica, it's not that it is about all kinds of work and about hardware, as contrasted to the CBRL

all work is material, but all work incorporates knowledge and if that knowledge is formalized as knowledge, code or design, the CBRL approach applies

so our license is actually designed for the material economy, to allow a cooperative economy to emerge

the difference in my view lies in the relation between the commons and the market

I want to insulate the commons more, which means that when people work voluntarily for the commons, it is not related to the market, but only when they are paid as cooperators

in Sensorica's vision, as I understand it, all commons work can be indirectly remunerated since all work is recorded 

the second difference is that Tibi sees all formal organisational formats as outdated, while I think they will continue to exist; of course, the DAO's may also institute a intermediary regime of informal temporary organisations bound by DAO smart contracts,

but essentially, Sensoria is an organized network, not an organization

for sensorica, there is no wall between the commons and the market, for me, it's better if there is one,

hope that makes sense,

Michel


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen@gmail.com> wrote:
Michel,

I changed the subject a bit and excerpted some statements from a
couple of your messages to ask a question (below the excerpts).

<excerpts>
as you likely now, my instantiation is centered around the creation of
open and ethical enterpreneurial coalitions, that co-produce commons,
and that start applying open book accounting and open supply chains in
their collaborative practices (a la Curto Cafe), using commons-based
reciprocity licenses as their binding social charter,

[...]

The basic idea of open coops is explained here:
http://p2pfoundation.net/Why_We_Need_a_New_Kind_of_Open_Cooperativism_for_the_P2P_Age
and elaborated here:
http://p2pfoundation.net/From_the_Communism_of_Capital_to_a_Capital_for_the_Commons

At the core of such coops, intended to create cooperative
enterpreneurial coalitions, is
 the proposal to use a new kind of license, commons-based reciprocity
licenses, a first instantiation of which is , though I don't like its
too explicit political language, the Peer Production License,
http://p2pfoundation.net/Peer_Production_License

Essentially such a license creates open knowledge, with one exception:

* allows full use by not for profit and common good oriented entities
* allows full use by self-owned enterpreneurial entities
* allows full use by for-profits who contribute

so the one exception is for-profits who do not contribute, who have to
pay for the use of the license; the idea is less the money flow, but
the recreation of a moral economy and social charter about
reciprocity, to be defined by coalition itself
</excerpts>

Question: that social charter (the PPL) focuses on "intellectual
property": '“Work” means the literary and/or artistic work offered
under the terms of this License'.

Sensorica's value network concept, by contrast, deals with all kinds
of work, especially those involved in creating material goods. I
understand from past conversations that you *do* want the ideas of
peer-to-peer mutual coordination to apply to all kinds of production.
Sensorica's idea of a social charter, as I understand it, includes the
distribution of income from sales of goods and services, back along
the network of value producing activities that went into those goods
and services. Not only through one organization, but also among other
organizations that contributed to the outcomes.

That obviously does not lessen the money flow, but it does establish
reciprocity. I am curious how you would deal with the social charter
and reciprocity in the production of material goods, especially in
this period of transition. And if you know of other examples of doing
something like that, and how their social charters work.

I am not trying to persuade anybody about anything regarding
Sensorica's concept here. Their first real value equation is just now
being formulated. I use them as an example of a social charter for the
production of more than intellectual works, with the goal of
developing the means for people to make a living in these experiments
toward a better economy (although making a living from their work is
not yet a reality in their case, either).



--
Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..

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Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/



--
Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/