On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Örsan Şenalp <orsan1234@gmail.com> wrote:
As for your reply, what is very striking that not the lack of clarity
of your opinions on Fabians and relation to Fabianism, but rather a
weak confirmation you have given only one thing find good in it;
namely guild socialism; or cooperative solidarity economy vision. I
would guess this means you believe in gradual change instead of
full-force attack at the heart of the machine; which kills billions of
people and destroy the planet; the main principle of the Fabians.

Dear Orsan,

it seems we are re-doing here the 250 year old battle between revoluton and reformism, and that your critique of Pat, and sometimes of me, is that we are reformists.

Personally, I don't see myself as a reformism in the sense it was defined,

but, I do consider this:

* the record of revolution is abysmal, with at least 100 million death when the revolutionaries were in power (the soviet one, but the earlier french was almost as dramatic); and an untold number during the ongoing defeats of those that did not succeed

* the record of social democracy in its golden age was extraordinary, at least for the western working class, but I would argue, if you look at national liberation, that was also a fundamental advance, not to mention civil, gender rights etc ..

* but even the revolutionaries who were combatting reformism, were not against reforms

* now, there is a lot of evidence of social unrest, there were social and political and electoral s shifts that brought progressives to power, but is there any evidence that global south workers for example are revolutionary .. I would argue, they are not, even as they fight radically for social and labor improvements

People like Pat Conaty , and myself, want post-capitalist structural reforms, and a phase transition, but at the same time, we are not opposed to reforms and to any social advances that social movements can win

we want full and real democratization, an end to extractive regimes and practices

yet, you continuously paint us as enemies it seems, and use a sliding scale that always ends up with the enemies of the people

it always seems that your real enemy is not the 1%, but those of the 99% who do not share your views ..

I see pat conaty, john restakis and others in the network for a cooperative commonwealth and synergia, as people with a lifelong record of fighting for the betterment of their fellow humans

they want reforms, but they are not reformists,

Michel


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