Para los informáticos: Como os comenté y propuse a los informáticos hace tiempo, ayer solicite el alta de la herramienta de ourproject como un proyecto de Software Libre dentro de http://savannah.gnu.org, ya que no tiene sentido desarrollar la herramienta en solitario. En este correo me comentaban que visto lo visto, estan interesados en que su propia herramienta (savannah.gnu.org) similar a la que usamos en ourproject se pueda usar para cualquier tipo de proyectos libres incorporando mis cambios, y yo les comento en este correo los problemas que existen. Un saludo, Vicente -----Forwarded Message----- From: Vicente Ruiz To: Mathieu Roy Cc: savannah-hackers, debian-sf-devel Subject: Re: submission of ourproject.org free projects tool devel - savannah.nongnu.org Date: 18 Feb 2003 00:08:17 +0100 On Mon, 2003-02-17 at 17:40, Mathieu Roy wrote:

Naturally, because Savannah have something to do with computing and because of the origin of Savannah, the software seems mainly to be usefull for software projects.

But we have nothing against an evolution in a more general way. Savannah could be used for different kind of projects and we would be glad of it.

So if you can work on improving Savannah in this way, we would have nothing against.

Yes, is logic, but let me explain a little bit what happens with ourproject.org. Why we use debian-sf? Few months ago, I started to install savannah in ourproject.org site. But when I read in the INSTALL file of savannah: "We get a lot of requests from people who want to use the Savannah code but we will not have time to spend in helping developing it. For those users we recommend Debian-SF because Savannah has not been packaged in a way that users can install, configure and start using it easily." and I read the opinion of people about debian-sf and Savannah I decided to install and adapt debian-sf. But I use savannah.gnu.org as a very good reference of a mature and working tool. I was thinking all the day about how Savannah or debian-sf can be modified to manage "free projects" (not only software) [1], and it's not easy. I'll try to show you: Now the modifications that I made in debian-sf are not very important: - Languages modifications to talk about Free Projects and not Software, collaborators and not software developers, and things like that. - Code modifications with the same goal. - Not to use CVS by default, and things like that. - New categories of projects, languages, licenses, etc. - New themes. All these changes make the tool a little bit more usable and oriented to manage Free Projects by any kind of people, but it's necessary more modifications. These changes are easy to integrate with Savannah or debian-sf, more or less. But the first problem that I see is that I don't know if the rest of the developers are interested in use the modifications and if they want that Savannah or debian-sf software begins to be "Free Projects Management Tool" instead of "Software Management Tool". But this is a minor problem, there is a biggest problem. Why I began with ourproject.org? I was searching the possibility to use a platform to develop "Free Projects" with any kind of people, not necessary software developers, people with other skills (architects, doctors, ecologists, teachers, sociologist, etcetera), and create together free projects about architecture, ecology, economy, pedagogy, ..., and to share these "Free Knowledge". All with the philosophy of Free Software but in other situations. I tried to find a site with these philosophy but I didn't find it. Then I decide to work to install a platform to permit this. But the big problem is that normal people, don't know very well what is Free Software, GNU/Linux, and the philosophy of GNU, and you have to explain very good these concepts to permit to them to understand how the Free Software Community works and to understand that they can do the same and create "Free Projects" using their skills and working together with other people with the same problems/interests. In our Manifesto: http://ourproject.org/en/manif.html we try that any kind of people understand us, but it's difficult already. When somebody understand the philosophy and want to use our tool in ourproject.org (a modification of debian-sf) it's very difficult for them to understand how the tool works, to create projects, mailing lists, forums, etcetera. For this reason, we need a tool very, very usable for any kind o people, and maybe the modifications to make Savannah or debian-sf more usable have not any interest for the rest of software developers, maybe. I would like to work with other developers in Savannah or debian-sf but I don't know if they have or they can have the same goals. Furthermore nowadays I'm the only active software developper in ourproject.org (other people try to contribute in other ways) because now we are making public the site officially (more o less), then I don't want to isolate myself. Well, it's difficult to explain with my poor English, but I think that you can see where is the problem. Sorry for the extension. Any comments and feedback will be appreciated. Greetings, Vicente Ruiz [1] Yesterday a wrote a draft: "Free Project Definition. An adaptation of the GNU's Free Software Definition for any kind of projects" https://ourproject.org/docman/display_doc.php?docid=18&group_id=1 Because sometimes software developers don't understand what is a "Free Project" (not Software) and our goals. But it's only a draft. I have to check with [email protected] if there is any problems with the original copyright, because I'm not a licenses expert. -- Vicente Ruiz <[email protected]>